Variation question

[JCrakers]

A friend of mine who has a 18m old asked me last night if I could look after her dd for 5 days because granny who usually does it cant do the week ahead.

She doesnt know anyone else or trust them to do it. She doesnt want to use a nursery for a week and is pretty desperate.
But I can only offer her 2 days as I already have 3 mindees the other 2 days. Although I will only have 4 between for 3 hrs between 11.30-2.30 on the Mon and tues.

I know its not sibling or continuity but would I be able to have a variation as its only a one off emergency?
Ive no idea and I know Ofsted wont help if I ring them :(

Any idea?

[Mouse]

Ofsted don't class that as an emergency, nor is it continuity of care.

I had a variation last year for a child who normally went to a different cm. She needed time off at short notice & mum asked me to have her son. I could do all days except one. I was also asked to have his sister after school and could fit her in no problem.

Ofsted granted me the variation for the 4th day on the grounds that I could have the mindee 3 of the 4 days without a variation and that I would be having his older sister.

I know it's not quite the same scenario, but that is my experience.

[sarah707]

I suppose the question is - how would you justify it under the current rules?

Is it continuity of care? No

Is it sibling care? No

Is it exceptional circumstances? Yes I suppose you might say that - but it could also be argued that the parent can find another childminder who does have spaces.

What would Ofsted have said under the old rules? ... experience from Mouse suggests they were flexible in some circumstances - but others report that they tried and failed to get variations approved for similar reasons.

At the end of the day it's you who will have to justify it if you are asked by an inspector / a complaint is made / there is an emergency situation / a child has a serious accident and you have to make a report to your insurance.

So the question might be - is it worth the risk to you of maybe coming unstuck?

Hope this helps :D

[JCrakers]

Thanks

That's a no then :D

The problem I have is I'm no good at making decisions. I would rather someone make them for me. I was happy with the other way of doing things. I've only had 1 variation in 5 yrs and now since the new eyfs has come in I've had to do 3 myself :(
1 because mindee didn't start school full time straight away and mum wanted me to pick dd up at 1pm another two because mum had to go into work another day.

I hate it. I liked it when I filled out a form, sent it off and someone said yes or no. Simple.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

You could offer the 2 days and then in a couple more weeks take 5 as c of c but that is a bit naughty

[JCrakers]

You could offer the 2 days and then in a couple more weeks take 5 as c of c but that is a bit naughty

She only needs 5 days in total because granny is unavailable. mon 8th, tues 9th, weds 10th and fri 12th and then mon 15th and thats all. I can do weds and fri but no space mon,tues.
What I did think was if I took the child for two days for which I have space, the other 3 days could be offered to keep the continuity so she wouldn't have to go to someone else for the other 3 days?

It's confusing

[Bluebell]

That raises an interesting question about how long would a child be with you for it to be deemed continuity of care?! I know of childminders that have had experience of within a few weeks (when ofsted decided) needing extra care and that being enough to be deemed cof c but it seems a fine line.
Also what if the new child started and had only been with you a few days, weeks or even about to start and another parent of a child you'd had for months/years then asked for that day - would you need to establish the new child first to be able to make an informed decision about conituity of care? - RA and well-being of children etc or would the lenth of time the child had been with you determine that yes it was ok for continuity of care?

[Bluebell]

It does seem reasonable to me that this would be a reasonable care to offer because of continuity and been able to offer the other days.

[FussyElmo]

I know its for friend but for 5 days is it worth the stress.

I cant see how you can grant yourself a variation knowing you never had the space for 3 out of the 5 day contract.

As sarah said if something did go wrong (and yes its a big if) could you in all honestly justify it.

[JCrakers]

I know its for friend but for 5 days is it worth the stress.

I cant see how you can grant yourself a variation knowing you never had the space for 3 out of the 5 day contract.

As sarah said if something did go wrong (and yes its a big if) could you in all honestly justify it.

That sounds like I've already said its a done deal :blush:
I was asking for advice and further up the thread I said I wasn't doing it.
It's probably not worth it and I won't do it with the advice I've been given. :D

[FussyElmo]

That sounds like I've already said its a done deal :blush:
I was asking for advice and further up the thread I said I wasn't doing it.
It's probably not worth it and I won't do it with the advice I've been given. :D

Sorry I just read when you said if i took her for the 2 days then I could offer the other 3. Just seemed alot of hassle for 5 days :thumbsup:

[JCrakers]

I've emailed ofsted to help me with 'the exceptional circumstances' and the continuity of care and I will see what they say if anything.

I find we have just been left without help and advice which leaves us vulnerable to make decisions we are not sure about.
I hope they can reply with a little help and not just tell me it's my decision.

I've hardly ever needed a variation in 5 yrs due to always having a space but now I'm almost full with a new mindee signed up for feb, I find I need the variation rule more for the families but it's knowing whether to say yes or no if you want to help someone out in this one off situation.

I have offered her the 3 days I have but I don't know what she will do about the other two. It's hard when I have the house space and the equipment, and the variation is 3 hrs, doesn't go into the school run and is for 2 days only. So all the RA is there its just the understanding of the circumstances and whether its right.

[christine e]

I really think it is wrong of Ofsted to pass the whole variation situation on to the provider to decide. Bottom line is if we grant ourselves a variation and it turns outs we shouldn't have done our insurance could be in jeopardy - worse case scenario is that we have 4 children - a serious accident takes place and possible claim on public liability insurance - ofsted come out and inspect and say we shouldn't have gone over number - insurance say insurance invalid.

I personally think if there is a grey area then exercise on the side of caution and say no - not worth the risk

Cx

[mama2three]

Penny posted a similar example scenario a while back , you might be able to search for it. I think it was along the lines that if there were genuinly no other options for the parent - ie no other minders had spaces /no nursery available etc then it could be seen as exceptional circumstances.

i would be surprised if you get more than the 'standard reply' from ofsted :rolleyes:

[JCrakers]

Well I was shunted off by ofsted. They were not interested at all, I'm so mad. I knew they wouldn't give two hoots

I've contacted my LA to see if they can help me

[JCrakers]

These were my reasons I gave to my DO. I'll see what she says when she replies


Just to confirm my reasons for the variation in the interest of the child and parent would be:

The child knows me therefore will settle quicker. She has been to my house before with Mum
Mum doesn't want to send her to a nursery due to a friend having a bad experience of one
She doesn't feel she can send her to another childminder for a short time as she will not know the childminder at all. It takes a child a while to settle with a stranger.
It isn't an ongoing variation, its only for 6 hrs over 2 days
The child knows another child who attends meaning she will settle and feel secure
I have risk assessed and have appropriate equipment and the ages of the children I will have for 3 hrs are 4yrs (attending from 8m old) 3yrs (attending for a yr) 13m and the 18m old.