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View Full Version : Just signed with michel Morton!



jadavi
28-09-2012, 01:04 AM
...and feel great about it. I didn't like being tied to Ncma paperwork (though the expenses accountancy book was really helpful) the contracts were ridiculously lengthy and expensive. The support meetings were crap (sorry) and gave me no support or useful discussion and the back up re getting the pack etc really slow...
Here's hoping for a better year with MM!

sarah707
28-09-2012, 07:03 AM
I've been with them for 18 years and they have always been there for me when I have needed them :D

ziggy
28-09-2012, 07:20 AM
I'm just about to re-new after my first year. Love the fact i'm only paying half as much. Contracts v lenghty but cover everything.

My friend also using them now.

marian
28-09-2012, 07:30 AM
I made the move 3 years ago and they were brilliant in helping me with a non paying parent:)

I continued to be a member of the NCMA - so effectively paying more in the long run - but stopped this year when they decided to open membership and not solely childminders

Marian x

Joda
28-09-2012, 07:54 AM
I really like the MM paperwork and have been with them for 5 years now.

rickysmiths
28-09-2012, 08:08 AM
Just to clarify.

MM insurance actually costs twice as much as NCMA insurance.

In order to take advantage of the lower insurance cost you do have to pay for membership of NCMA.

Please don't muddle this up because it gives a false impression.

Also MM include Employers Insurance in their Public Liability Insurance even if you don't need it which is why it costs more. NCMA don't do this and only charge a small extra fee for Employer's insurance if the cm needs it.

hectors house
28-09-2012, 08:11 AM
I decided in June to change to Morton Michel - I decided that the NCMA weren't doing enough to support childminders anymore (opening up to every tom, dick and harry) and I could get far better advice from this lovely forum for free. Also the quality of their stationery wasn't to the same standards it used to be - with less pages in register, accident/incident books and the costs kept going up.

I used to be insured with Morton Michel many years ago when I childminded the first time around - we got free cover paid for by our County Council!

rickysmiths
28-09-2012, 08:24 AM
...and feel great about it. I didn't like being tied to Ncma paperwork (though the expenses accountancy book was really helpful) the contracts were ridiculously lengthy and expensive. The support meetings were crap (sorry) and gave me no support or useful discussion and the back up re getting the pack etc really slow...
Here's hoping for a better year with MM!

My understanding is that MM paperwork is no less expensive than NCMA paperwork for its members? My understanding is that the MM Contracts are longer than the NCMA ones?

I have just had a look and indeed we can bust the myth that MM are cheaper than NCMA once and for all.

MM Contracts are a lot more expensive, approx 30%, Insurance is approx is 100% more expensive.

MM 10 Contracts £13 for Policy Holders £2.17 each (£26 for non Policy Holders)
NCMA 10 Contracts £10 for members £1.67 each (£19 for non members)

I must say in order to protect myself I have never begrudged the cost of a Contract (£1.67 ) and in the overall picture of the money I make from the Contracted child the cost is minute, even children I only have one day a week.

While I respect people's choice in choosing to Insure with either MM or NCMA. I do object to the way the move from NCMA to MM is often portrayed as being done because of the high cost of NCMA when it is not correct and this kind of thread is inflammatory and inaccurate.

I hope the above information helps to give a more balanced view.

rickysmiths
28-09-2012, 08:36 AM
I decided in June to change to Morton Michel - I decided that the NCMA weren't doing enough to support childminders anymore (opening up to every tom, dick and harry) and I could get far better advice from this lovely forum for free. Also the quality of their stationery wasn't to the same standards it used to be - with less pages in register, accident/incident books and the costs kept going up.

I used to be insured with Morton Michel many years ago when I childminded the first time around - we got free cover paid for by our County Council!

I have just checked that and I have Registers from 2000, 2004 and 2011-12 all slightly different styles and they all have the same number of pages 36, so I don't know why you are saying they have reduced?

There is still no question though NCMA paperwork is cheaper than MM. As far as costs going up, of course they do just like heating, petrol, food and everything else NCMA has to cover their costs unfortunately the costs of the raw materials keep increasing which is why we are all paying more for everything.

Just because they have widened their membership doesn't mean they will stop representing childminders.

Logan
28-09-2012, 08:59 AM
I am with NCMA myself but I've just checked and there are only 6 contracts in the pack for £10, but the cost per contract of £1.67 rickysmiths quoted is correct. ;)

Edit: just checked and there are 6 contracts in MM pack too

pinkbutterfly
28-09-2012, 09:28 AM
There you go ... have a free attendance register on me :)
I have also spent time typing MM contract into word and I change it if I need to. It also gives me the flexibility to email a draft before printing it. It saves time ... so no more lengthy meetings to sign the paperwork ... 10 minutes and it's all done.
I have had some issues with NCMA ... whenever I rang the person couldn't give me a straight answer.
With MM when I had a non payer they handled it very well ... I got the owed money from MM the next day without the need to go to court.
MM all the way.

pinkbutterfly
28-09-2012, 09:31 AM
If anybody wants my typed contract just drop me a message.

Edit: I actually added the contracts here. Please remember that you need to edit them to suit your needs. No more moaning from now on about the contract prices ;)

hectors house
28-09-2012, 10:50 AM
I used a whole pack of NCMA revised medicines pages in just a couple of months - one page for each child (only 6 pages in pack - I had 8 children part time), only 5 slips on each page - so a child who comes 3 days a week with conjuncivitus or a chest infection soon gets through slips - 2 of the children are very prone to chest infections. There is also only 6 thicker pages for contact details/drs details etc and on the back seems to be a "blanket" permission to administer medicines like Calpol for teething etc - which I felt was in breach of the Stat regs. When I rang up for clarification the person I spoke to didn't have a clue about the stationery or the Stat regs. I have not used this form as I insist on a signature every day rather than a "blanket" permission.

Register - (Rickysmiths) I stand corrected on number of pages in register, have just checked back to when I re-joined in 2005 - The quality of the paper is now so much thinner - I write with a gel pen and with the latest register the ink shows through from back of previous page, (used to be thick blue paper) also the last register I had wasn't printed properly - whole line of writing missed "time of arrival and departures" - When I rang and told them they just checked and said "faulty batch, sorry they are all like that"!

Their insurance may be cheaper but I don't have to pay membership to belong to Morton Michel. I can't comment on price of MM stationery as still using up NCMA stationery. I was quite upset at leaving them but I learnt far more initially from the Bromley website and then from this forum. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I felt that NCMA was right for me when I started back up but it wasn't keeping me up to date.

JCrakers
28-09-2012, 10:59 AM
I have mm insurance but do all my own paperwork/contract as I don't want to pay for something I can do myself :D

I've had mm insurance since I started 5 yrs ago.

rickysmiths
28-09-2012, 11:33 AM
There you go ... have a free attendance register on me :)
I have also spent time typing MM contract into word and I change it if I need to. It also gives me the flexibility to email a draft before printing it. It saves time ... so no more lengthy meetings to sign the paperwork ... 10 minutes and it's all done.
I have had some issues with NCMA ... whenever I rang the person couldn't give me a straight answer.
With MM when I had a non payer they handled it very well ... I got the owed money from MM the next day without the need to go to court.
MM all the way.

I think you will find this is contravening Copyright doing this.

rickysmiths
28-09-2012, 11:34 AM
If anybody wants my typed contract just drop me a message.

Edit: I actually added the contracts here. Please remember that you need to edit them to suit your needs. No more moaning from now on about the contract prices ;)



You should not be sharing a document that is sold by MM and is subject to Copyright.

rickysmiths
28-09-2012, 11:40 AM
I used a whole pack of NCMA revised medicines pages in just a couple of months - one page for each child (only 6 pages in pack - I had 8 children part time), only 5 slips on each page - so a child who comes 3 days a week with conjuncivitus or a chest infection soon gets through slips - 2 of the children are very prone to chest infections. There is also only 6 thicker pages for contact details/drs details etc and on the back seems to be a "blanket" permission to administer medicines like Calpol for teething etc - which I felt was in breach of the Stat regs. When I rang up for clarification the person I spoke to didn't have a clue about the stationery or the Stat regs. I have not used this form as I insist on a signature every day rather than a "blanket" permission.

Register - (Rickysmiths) I stand corrected on number of pages in register, have just checked back to when I re-joined in 2005 - The quality of the paper is now so much thinner - I write with a gel pen and with the latest register the ink shows through from back of previous page, (used to be thick blue paper) also the last register I had wasn't printed properly - whole line of writing missed "time of arrival and departures" - When I rang and told them they just checked and said "faulty batch, sorry they are all like that"!

Their insurance may be cheaper but I don't have to pay membership to belong to Morton Michel. I can't comment on price of MM stationery as still using up NCMA stationery. I was quite upset at leaving them but I learnt far more initially from the Bromley website and then from this forum. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I felt that NCMA was right for me when I started back up but it wasn't keeping me up to date.

That is fine. There is no 'Blanket' permission on any of the forms or dividers in the Accident folder. They just repeat the permission to seek medical help and you can add other thinks if you want to or just cross them through.

I would have insisted on a replacement Register. I use black biro pen for all documents so they copy well so I have never had an issue with showing through.

I know NCMA have had problems with their Legal Line but they have done something about it and Vincents have long gone and so have the company that replaced them. I have had to phone and have found the new company very helpful. I suspect I have a non payer issue coming up and will pursue it to the end so I will be able to tell you if the new lot are helpful of not.

loocyloo
28-09-2012, 11:41 AM
[QUOTE=hectors house;1163917]I used a whole pack of NCMA revised medicines pages in just a couple of months - one page for each child (only 6 pages in pack - I had 8 children part time), only 5 slips on each page - so a child who comes 3 days a week with conjuncivitus or a chest infection soon gets through slips - 2 of the children are very prone to chest infections. There is also only 6 thicker pages for contact details/drs details etc and on the back seems to be a "blanket" permission to administer medicines like Calpol for teething etc - which I felt was in breach of the Stat regs. When I rang up for clarification the person I spoke to didn't have a clue about the stationery or the Stat regs. I have not used this form as I insist on a signature every day rather than a "blanket" permission.



i created my own forms for the medical folder, and i keep it in a different folder, as i found teh medical file wasn't thick enough to hold everything i wanted it to. i checked with ncma and there are no insurance issues with me using my own documents.

hectors house
28-09-2012, 11:51 AM
Thank you loocyloo - something else for my "to do" list - create own forms for medical file - I already use my own minor injuries form, so good idea to see what works in the NCMA folder and what doesn't and make up my own without breaching copyright.

pinkbutterfly
28-09-2012, 12:11 PM
You should not be sharing a document that is sold by MM and is subject to Copyright.

It is a template and needs to be adjusted ... as every CM is different. I feel no ready made paper contract gives me flexibility I need. But I'll let Sarah check.
I had checked with MM before I typed my contract and they were ok with this.

jackie 7
28-09-2012, 12:43 PM
Best thing with MM is that you can use any contracts and you are still insured. My old la gave me great contracts which included some permission forms.

Jods
28-09-2012, 01:26 PM
interesting thread - I am with NCMA but due for renewal and am considering MM, but like most things its a personal choice, but I do find the NCMA contracts difficult to complete for my minding needs, so created my own, knowing I am not covered seems a pointless exercise tbh x

tialil
28-09-2012, 09:21 PM
This is what I am considering when mine is due for renewal soon. I have thought about it now for a few years but everytime I just renew. We no longer have a NCMA DO in our area so part of me is really thinking of trying somewhere else this time around.

Still I have about 6 weeks yet to think about it .

starlight1
28-09-2012, 09:28 PM
I am a new Childminder and just signed up with them and was wondering if people found the full packs useful?

jaswinder bedi
28-09-2012, 09:31 PM
Have moved with Morton and michal and also saved money.... Its just will take time get used to it!

christine e
29-09-2012, 05:38 AM
interesting thread - I am with NCMA but due for renewal and am considering MM, but like most things its a personal choice, but I do find the NCMA contracts difficult to complete for my minding needs, so created my own, knowing I am not covered seems a pointless exercise tbh x

NCMA will only get involved with a contract dispute if you use their contracts this comes under membership services not insurance. Using your own contracts does not affect your public liability insurance.

Cx

christine e
29-09-2012, 05:45 AM
This is what I am considering when mine is due for renewal soon. I have thought about it now for a few years but everytime I just renew. We no longer have a NCMA DO in our area so part of me is really thinking of trying somewhere else this time around.

Still I have about 6 weeks yet to think about it .

You have to remember that it was your local authority funding your development officer not NCMA. Your LA would have put childminder support out to tender and NCMA would have been given a contract to support childminders in your area. Many LA's are now not renewing contracts and withdrawing support as part of their cutbacks. NCMA are still their centrally supporting, lobbying and providing online training for members and are present in the regions via forums keeping in touch with members. I am off to my regional forum today to give my input :)

tialil
29-09-2012, 08:58 AM
You have to remember that it was your local authority funding your development officer not NCMA. Your LA would have put childminder support out to tender and NCMA would have been given a contract to support childminders in your area. Many LA's are now not renewing contracts and withdrawing support as part of their cutbacks. NCMA are still their centrally supporting, lobbying and providing online training for members and are present in the regions via forums keeping in touch with members. I am off to my regional forum today to give my input :)

Thanks, it is our LA who are now providing our DO if we need help. Its all about money though at the end of the day. Quite sad really that everything comes down to money in the end but I suppose this is the sign of the times as all of us are going through really tight times.

LauraS
29-09-2012, 09:39 AM
I am a new Childminder and just signed up with them and was wondering if people found the full packs useful?

I am also new and had the.full pack but didn't use it. I found that some of the formats.if.the.documents didn't tally with.how I wanted to do.things (for example attendance registers list multiple children on one page, I wanted one page per child.)

I had also created a lot of the documents needed for myself because the pack took so long to arrive (my fault, not mms) and felt mine were just as good, if not better in places, for the way I want to do things. Some of the.stuff in the full pack is entirely useless, like the policy and procedure stuff.

Everything I have is my own now, apart from contracts, and I will do those myself when I need more too.

Incidentally, I joined mm purely because.of the support I felt I would receive.in the case of a non paying parent. Mm provides a speedier resolution to my mind (by paying money owed themselves if.the case is viable) and then pursuing it. Ncma would assist in the court process but I might wait months or years (or forever!) for the money. I have already had.cause.to.use them and they are great.

zippy
29-09-2012, 02:14 PM
I was with ncma for first year and then changed, membership fee is at too expensive and at the time I was a member 1998 I think didn't see any benefits from it that I can remember, so saved myself a tidy sum and moved to mm, never looked back they have got fab over the years and they are excellent at sorting out contract disputes, also no excess to pay for contract disputes in case anyone needs that info.

pinkbutterfly
29-09-2012, 07:34 PM
Mm provides a speedier resolution to my mind (by paying money owed themselves if.the case is viable) and then pursuing it.
I know that with small amounts like the one I had which was just over £150 they do not pursue it. They just pay the outstanding amount to you as it's not worth their time to try to get the money back. The non paying parent did not find out the debt was settled so in fact I could have still taken her to small claims court but without the support of the insurer.

Childrenatheart
29-09-2012, 10:40 PM
I wish NCMA would change the name of their business division so people had a clearer appreciation of the fact that the PLI is not the be all and end all. I get really fed up of debates saying how people are leaving NCMA & joining MM without making the distinction between NCMA membership & NCMA business services which includes insurance. NCMA are childminder's professional association. They charge a membership fee to support their work championing childminder issues and rights such as the current individual inspection campaign and Inland revenue tax special considerations cms have. Much of this work is behind the scenes so many CM's don't appreciate the work undertaken on their behalf. NCMA membership also gives access to a free ****** website to advertise vacancies and ****** resources and a number of retailer discounts, plus discounts on NCMA stationery, plus Who Minds magazine. As a member of NCMA one of the perks is to be able to buy cheaper public liability insurance. I dislike NCMAs new policy of admitting non-home based childcarers and voted against this BUT they are still our strongest ally against the current threats to our profession.
Morton Michel are an insurance broker but have added enhanced services to those taking out PL, home & motor insurance through them, including creative steps mag and some retailer discounts. They also produce their own stationery but have the advantage that you don't have to use this for their PLI.
When deciding what to do PLEASE think of NCMA membership and your PLI as two completely separate things. If you want to belong to your professional org and support it's work then pay NCMA membership, THEN look at both NCMA & MM PLI and decide which to go for but remember you can't take advantage of the cheaper NCMA PLI without being an NCMA member.
And just in case you were wondering - I am an NCMA member with MM PLI but when I renew I will go back to NCMA PLI because I still use their contracts, their legal service has improved & I have my car insurance via MM so I still get the benefit of creative steps etc.

jadavi
30-09-2012, 06:18 AM
The thing that really put me off was the regional support meeting. All they wanted was to run their new branding by us and have our reaction to opening the doors to other settings not just cms. The Ofsted person didn't show up to discuss changes so they sent us home early instead of using the time to discuss the issues that we had all come to talk about using the knowledge we all had. I was a newly reg cm and it was my first group meeting. I was so disappointed; I had travelled really far to get there.
I did not feel that offering support to the people in the room was anywhere on their agenda. Everybody gave back negative evaluate forms...

I don't have much of a handle on the wider issues that they are supposed to be fighting on our behalf but if that is the case they need to Market themselves more visibly and Deliver what they claim ie offer support to cms

fun house
30-09-2012, 09:07 AM
I was thinking of going with MM this year and so was a couple of other childminders that i know, but one of us were told we would have to pay £30 to extra for Indemnity. Does anyone know what this is and why we have to pay it?

sarah707
30-09-2012, 09:15 AM
I was thinking of going with MM this year and so was a couple of other childminders that i know, but one of us were told we would have to pay £30 to extra for Indemnity. Does anyone know what this is and why we have to pay it?

No, that's not right.

I have been with MM for 18 years and I have only ever paid one payment - the annual fee for my PL insurance cover.

Everything I need for my childminding insurance is included within that fee.

Everything extra such as magazines, discounts for days out, newsletters, training guides etc is FREE.

If you are still unsure why not give MM a call and chat it through with their advisors - https://www.*****************/Childminder/ :D

mr man
30-09-2012, 11:12 AM
There you go ... have a free attendance register on me :)
I have also spent time typing MM contract into word and I change it if I need to. It also gives me the flexibility to email a draft before printing it. It saves time ... so no more lengthy meetings to sign the paperwork ... 10 minutes and it's all done.
I have had some issues with NCMA ... whenever I rang the person couldn't give me a straight answer.
With MM when I had a non payer they handled it very well ... I got the owed money from MM the next day without the need to go to court.
MM all the way.

I do the same as you, I'm with MM and I have my own registers I made, and my own contracts written alongside the MM ones .
Works great for me :D

rachelle
30-09-2012, 12:24 PM
I have my pli and employers insurance with mm but am an NCMA member because this is what fits best with my business. I like to use my own paperwork, unique to my business (and sometimes adapted to each set of parents if I get uneasy) but I also like belonging to the one professional body that there is to represent me. (although not heard anything from them that I haven;t sourced myself for so long that I might rethink this at renewel time)

Creative steps I can read as a gold member of childcare site - it's a good magazine too :)