Does anyone else feel as though...

[nipper]

...the parents of the children they look after are mainly concerned with a)whether/how often/how much their child has eaten/drank
b)what time they have had nappies changed/visited the toilet
c)what activities have been done/toys played with/people they may have come into contact with
d)how long they have slept (or not)

Don't get me wrong, I love my new job, but the cynical side of me just thinks as long as I am doing all of the above with the children, why do we have to do all the paperwork to justify to some total stranger (Ofsted) that we are doing it? I can hand on heart say that none of my parents seem interested in the new EYFS (and I certainly don't mean that disrespectfully), they do enjoy having a look at the learning journals when I send them home and we always discuss at drop off in the morning things that might affect their child's day with me. I think most of my parents would question the effort I am going to in terms of planning and follow-ups etc etc...a few might even think I am doing as much as a teacher would be doing and suggest I get a life.

Here's a new one, a childminder who doesn't do any type of paperwork...or at least that's what they told me a few days ago...can this be true? The fact that Ofsted would only award her a satisfactory grade because she didn't do paperwork, just observations in a LJ. Do people actually do this?

I sent my son to a childminder from the age of 6 months, because I didn't want him institutionalized in a nursery. I knew as soon as I met her that she would do a great job. The mere thought though that she was having to tick all these boxes would mortify me...funnily enough I know she stopped childminding soon after the EYFS was introduced.

I'd just love to know everyone's thoughts on this.

[Ripeberry]

Yes paperwork is a pain but we are inspected by Ofsted and have to sing to their tune. It could be worse if we get de-regulated. Now and then I think a Nanny job (live out) could be quite nice.
But I would lose my independence. That CM would have had to do the minimum paperwork that is required. Sounds like they were showing off. Why shoot yourself in the foot like that?

[Roseolivia]

Yes i agree. I think parents like seeing LJ and photos but aren't bothered with you linking it all up to the EYFS, they don't understand it all and in years to come when they look back at the LJ will they be bothered?

[hectors house]

I know a fantastic childminder, she only looks after teachers children term time only - she refuses to do written observations and planning and the mindees parents (teachers) back her decision. She still gets "Good" in inspections because she can tell the inspector verbally what stages the children have reached.

[JCrakers]

My problem with the EYFS is as a childminder I always feel professional until I meet someone (which is quite often) who doesn't know I do it, thinks all I do is play with and change nappies all day and basically have it easy.

I think the problem we have as childminders is that more than half of parents don't even realise what we do and the parents I work with can take it or leave it really. As long as their children are happy, enjoying themselves and safe that's what's important to them and as a parent myself I would agree.
I think this is why we have so many parents saying we are too expensive. We charge too much but they don't realise the work involved.

I can see the importance of the EYFS. It helps us to flag up problems with development (although having worked with children for 18yrs I can see a problem after spending an hour with a child, it comes with experience)

Having just been through the funding process I can see that we live in a 'paperwork gone mad' society. To fund a 3yr old I have to show that she is getting educated through reams of charts and forms.

So I do see the positives and negatives to it. Its a tough one especially as we want to remain professional and be on a par with nurseries.

[lynnfi]

I was inspected 2 years ago and got a good with only daily diary and a few policies in place. Not that I was unwilling to do the rest, I just had no idea about it, until I discovered this lovely forum.
So it really depends on
1) what you do with the children and how you are and how you can prove evth is thought out well, and
2) who inspects you!!

[nipper]

Having just been through the funding process I can see that we live in a 'paperwork gone mad' society. To fund a 3yr old I have to show that she is getting educated through reams of charts and forms.

Hmm, yes I'm just about to embark on this 'journey' too. Must admit I've never been that keen on paperwork. And like you JCrakers I think I'm pretty good at reading children as I was a Primary school teacher in a previous life.

[nipper]

I was inspected 2 years ago and got a good with only daily diary and a few policies in place. Not that I was unwilling to do the rest, I just had no idea about it, until I discovered this lovely forum.
So it really depends on
1) what you do with the children and how you are and how you can prove evth is thought out well, and
2) who inspects you!!

This is exactly my point...my inspector luckily also came from a teaching background so we talked a lot about the EYFS and all its 'loopholes.'

[lynnfi]

This is exactly my point...my inspector luckily also came from a teaching background so we talked a lot about the EYFS and all its 'loopholes.'

Yes. I used to be a teacher so I guess this may have influenced my inspector, as there are things I do not agree with and can spend hours showing why and well don't get me started!

But I had no written risk assessment etc, although I did have procedures for evth and was able to state waht would be done in such and such cases. But a few years on I wonder what could have happened with another inspector!!

[Jods]

Me I am one of them - no daily diary just the odd text to say about sleep times and a photo, LJ is online, and as I worked in a pre-school for 7 years I can verbally describe where each child is, what I might do/will/can for future, I have no timetable, we just wing it each day x Parents love it, the children love it, I love it and Mrs O thought it was okay to grade me good x

[nipper]

Yes. I used to be a teacher so I guess this may have influenced my inspector, as there are things I do not agree with and can spend hours showing why and well don't get me started!
Had to laugh at this:laughing:

[/QUOTE]But I had no written risk assessment etc, although I did have procedures for evth and was able to state waht would be done in such and such cases. But a few years on I wonder what could have happened with another inspector!![/QUOTE]
But this is the thing that worries me, there is just no uniformity in the system. It's as if some people can be intimidated by their inspectors and some intimidate the inspectors!

[lynnfi]

Me I am one of them - no daily diary just the odd text to say about sleep times and a photo, LJ is online, and as I worked in a pre-school for 7 years I can verbally describe where each child is, what I might do/will/can for future, I have no timetable, we just wing it each day x Parents love it, the children love it, I love it and Mrs O thought it was okay to grade me good x

I do believe the EYFS for us to use is a kind of safety net. In some cases it really is needed, so basically it is needed. It adds on an intellectual part to a job that in some cases otherwise could be totally deprived of it, and where evth could go wrong...

[nipper]

Me I am one of them - no daily diary just the odd text to say about sleep times and a photo, LJ is online, and as I worked in a pre-school for 7 years I can verbally describe where each child is, what I might do/will/can for future, I have no timetable, we just wing it each day x Parents love it, the children love it, I love it and Mrs O thought it was okay to grade me good x

That's the proof for me!

[lynnfi]

Had to laugh at this:laughing:

But I had no written risk assessment etc, although I did have procedures for evth and was able to state waht would be done in such and such cases. But a few years on I wonder what could have happened with another inspector!![/QUOTE]
But this is the thing that worries me, there is just no uniformity in the system. It's as if some people can be intimidated by their inspectors and some intimidate the inspectors![/QUOTE]

Well well I wouldn't say I intimidated my inspector :laughing: :littleangel:
But now that you mention it...

No seriously I think most of them are wise enough to judge if the children are well looked after, if all the welfare requirements are met, and if we can think properly and act appropriately in case of a pb.

If this is met and we have the minimum paperwork in place, I think they are fine. I do not care about having an outstanding for the moment as I have other priorities, although may be in the future when my children are older and I have more time I may try and go further ahead with this. Because once you get started I believe it can be fun.
No kidding I really do. I think some of us, like Sara, is actually globally having some fun doing evth she does. And it can be really rewarding and lead you to further areas.

But not for me for now.

[lilac_dragon]

A few years ago I was minding a 3 year old whose Mum was a Social Worker. She specifically asked me when the Learning Journeys came in NOT to do one for her child. I told her it was compulsory, and she asked me to ring Ofsted and ask them could I opt out if a Parent wasn't happy with it. They said No. They also told me that the Parent obviously didn't care much about her own child which I felt was unfair and uncalled for! I left that bit out when I spoke to Mum and just said it was compulsory and I had to do it. A month later she resigned, looked after her child at home until she started at Primary school and then went back to work!
My Ofsted Inspector came, approved my work (including my Learning Journeys), and told me that she would love to give me an Outstanding, but it was her first month in the job and she'd been told not to give any Outstandings until she had more experience. So she gave me a Good.
Another Inspector told me to get rid of my Climbing Frame i n case the children fell of and hurt themselves (had it 20 years at that point, in good order and not 1 single accident) but told me to build them a Tree House instead. Climbing Frame was 4ft at highest point and lowest fork of tree was 15ft off the ground. That Inspector gave me Good but said it was "grudging, due to the Climbing Frame".
Can't win. The way I look at it, some of my Parents came to me when they were toddlers and now bring their own children because they enjoyed coming here so much and trust me with their little ones, my Parents think I'm Outstanding and so do the children.
I value their feelings above Ofsteds

[nipper]

Thanks for that Lilac Dragon, I quite often say that if I put my parents in a room with the Ofsted inspector I wonder who would come out on top?

As for replacing your climbing frame with a tree house:panic:

[Jods]

I approached my parents prior to my inspection and requested that if they wanted to speak to Mrs O, then they could, I would inform both and ring the relevant numbers - low and behold yes the parents did want to speak to Mrs O and I got outsanding on my Partnership with parents - I dont care about the inconsistancys between inspectors, and other inspections thats life, and yes I aimed for Oustanding and got good - but as already mentioned we are all happy, will I aim for oustanding next time hell yes :laughing::laughing:

[nipper]

Good for you. My inspection won't be for another three years yet, but I might take a leaf out of your book and get everyone talking to each other.

[JCrakers]

I aimed for outstanding, got a good.

Slightly disappointed after all the hard work Id put in over 4 years. Reason for not getting an outstanding was I'm not a nursery. Her words which she denied later.

I learnt a lot that day :D Now I aim to do the best I can and am not really concerned about my grade. I know the parents are happy because they tell me. Now my work motto is just to do the best I can and not to worry about getting that outstanding I so longed for.

[hectors house]

I approached my parents prior to my inspection and requested that if they wanted to speak to Mrs O, then they could, I would inform both and ring the relevant numbers - low and behold yes the parents did want to speak to Mrs O and I got outsanding on my Partnership with parents - I dont care about the inconsistancys between inspectors, and other inspections thats life, and yes I aimed for Oustanding and got good - but as already mentioned we are all happy, will I aim for oustanding next time hell yes :laughing::laughing:

Did the parents have to come when Ofsted inspector at your house to talk to them, or did they do telephone interviews? All of my mindees parents filled in questionaires and one wrote a letter but inspector didn't even mention them.

[jillplum]

I feel the inspections are based on one persons snapshot of what I do, not the years and years caring for children. in my view if the parents and children are happy then I am happy. If I come out of my inspection able to carry on childminding then it has been successful.

[Jods]

Did the parents have to come when Ofsted inspector at your house to talk to them, or did they do telephone interviews? All of my mindees parents filled in questionaires and one wrote a letter but inspector didn't even mention them.

I did questionnaires also, the parents spoke to Mrs O on the phone, I went out of the room and played with the children whilst they chatted, mum spoke to Mrs O for about 15 mins x I still dont know aht was said, as I did not want to ask (if you know what I mean) but it must have been complimentary for me to achive outstanding in that area x I was the one who told the inspector that a parent wanted to talk to her and if Mrs O had any questions she could answer, I kind of told Mrs O what was happening :blush:

[jackie 7]

I did a first aid course with some nursery staf. They did't realise how much we do, said we follow eyfs, do the cleaning and cooking and no separate time for planning. I couldn't decide if they thought we were making it up .Having seen nursery lj's I know when i am doing just the basics I do more than they do. And that was a council run nursery!

[nipper]

I did a first aid course with some nursery staf. They did't realise how much we do, said we follow eyfs, do the cleaning and cooking and no separate time for planning. I couldn't decide if they thought we were making it up .Having seen nursery lj's I know when i am doing just the basics I do more than they do. And that was a council run nursery!

And we do all of this for peanuts pay don't we girls?

[nipper]

Just to add on to the previous post about the quality of the learning journals, most nurseries just do post it note after post it note, few photos and not very much else in the way of 'formal' observations.

At least I can say my parents are getting their money's worth as far as my LJ's go!

[Jods]

Just to add on to the previous post about the quality of the learning journals, most nurseries just do post it note after post it note, few photos and not very much else in the way of 'formal' observations.

At least I can say my parents are getting their money's worth as far as my LJ's go!

not true, my LJs from preschool were the same as they are now - best practice for nurserys/preschools is 1-2 large observations per half term so 4 a half term, and when I could have 6 - 12 LJ's makes 1-2 children a week, 1-4 obs I also was also signed to help a lovely Portugese lady proof read and syntax her obs. In a large setting with 24 children, its easier to postit note and photo obs, especially if its a quick scribble just for example before you take a group outside to play (ratio 6) (Johnny popped his boots on with no help today). I find that whilst its unfair to bash the CM profession - its also not fair to judge the other way, I am lucky as have worked both sides of the fence x

[nipper]

As have I and it's quite interesting/frightening to see how little people can get away with.

[Jods]

As have I and it's quite interesting/frightening to see how little people can get away with.

but are they getting away with it?

just because someone does less than someone else does not make them worse than the other, as a childminder I do less than as in pre-school, but thats down to experience and my personal working practice x