Letters to parents re change in numbers

[AliceK]

Hi
Just a quickie.
I have just put together a letter and form for parents to sign advising them of the potential increase in numbers re the new eyfs. I'm just wondering do I need to give them out to all parents of children under 8 or just the parents of the children actually in the EYFS?
It would make sense to just give them to EY children seeing as it's new rules for the new EYFS but then shouldn't a parent of say a 6yr old need to know this information as well if their child id attending my setting??

Sorry, very confused, been doing this bleedin new EYFS paperwork all day.

xxxx

[sonia ann]

I would give them to all parents at my setting out of politeness ;-)

[rickysmiths]

I won't be giving my parents letters. I never have in the past I just tell them what I am doing and how it will impact on their children, all the positives and it will be noted on daily sheet if the parent has one.

I don't see why I need to do any extra paperwork than I do now and the current Variation form merely asks if you have informed all parents it doesn't ask for supporting written, signed and dated evidence.

[bunyip]

Hi
Just a quickie.
I have just put together a letter and form for parents to sign advising them of the potential increase in numbers re the new eyfs. I'm just wondering do I need to give them out to all parents of children under 8 or just the parents of the children actually in the EYFS?
It would make sense to just give them to EY children seeing as it's new rules for the new EYFS but then shouldn't a parent of say a 6yr old need to know this information as well if their child id attending my setting??

Sorry, very confused, been doing this bleedin new EYFS paperwork all day.

xxxx

How does the new EYFS potentially increase our numbers? :confused:

[rickysmiths]

I think she has her wires crossed and means if she wants to grant herself a variation if a sibling comes along.

I can see any advantage or anywhere in the EYFS that asks us to get the permission of current parents in advance in case we may need to vary our numbers. You are creating a possible problem and confusion before you need.

I have kept a copy of the existing Variation Request form on my Computer and if I have a situation where I need to Vary my numbers and would have gone to Ofsted for a Variation. I will complete that form. On the existing from it asks if you have informed your parents of your intention to increase your numbers with a Variation. At that stage I will inform my parents verbally of my intention and any possible effect it will have on their children. I may then just do a short note to the effect that this is to confirm I have informed you that from x date I will be caring for 4 under fives or two under ones and this arrangement will stay in place until one of the children leaves or reaches their 5th birthday or one of the two under ones has their first birthday. I will just ask them to sign and date to confirm they have been informed and I will put this note with the Variation form.

I have no intention of asking the permission of existing parents. It is my business and my income and not theirs. If a parent questions my intentions then I will be happy to discuss the arrangements and to reassure them that it will not have any adverse effects on the care of their child to the contrary it will be positive.

[sarah707]

Changes to conditions of registration (what used to be called variations) can only be made in exceptional circumstances for continuity of care.

There is no need to inform parents that you 'might' organise them in the future because they will be child and time specific.

http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/freeresources/Free%20downloads/changestoconditionsofregistration.html

However, you might find it useful to have a document in your files that you can tweak and send out if parents prefer you to communicate with them by letter :thumbsup: :D

[bunyip]

I thought I was clear about numbers and variations, but have begun to have doubts. :panic:

My first impression was that the rules on numbers had not changed under new EYFS. The only change is that Ofsted expect us to follow the rules without troubling them to issue a variation. So far, so simple.

Following a closer reading of EYFS Statutory Framework, section 3.40, I noticed that:-

Early Years children for whom we provide wrap-around care don't really count as EY (but do count as under-8's). So no change from the current EYFS.
But, "exceptions to the usual ratios can be made when childminders are caring for sibling babies, or when caring for their own baby." (My emphasis.)


This latter bullet point is significantly different from the current EYFS Statutory Framework, section 14, which doesn't refer to babies. It says, "Exceptions to these ratios may be made for siblings and to provide continuity of care in certain circumstances ..."

Given that the term "babies" is generally used by Ofsted to refer to under-1's, I'm now confused. Does this mean they're tightening up and CMs can no longer make exceptions for EY children who are between 1 year and school age?

I checked Ofsted's guide: Numbers and ages of children that providers on the Early Years and Childcare Registers may care for. Section 7 of that document says, "Paragraph 3.29 in the EYFS also allows childminders to care for more children in the early years age group through an overarching 'exceptional circumstances' statement." We normally interpret an exceptional circumstance as relating to the continuity of care for children and/or where sibling children are not babies."

That now looks as if Ofsted are contradicting their own EYFS Statutory Framework, section 3.40. It's even more confusing because the paragraph they refer to (3.29) which contains their "overarching 'exceptional circumstances' statement" is in the section that applies to group settings, and not the bit that refers to CMs.

I'm sure the devil is in the detail, as they say. but which particular detail is he in? :huh:

If it's a clarification, then it's not a very clear clarification (at best, it suggests they didn't say what they meant when they published new 'improved' EYFS.) :confused: :huh: :confused:

I've referred this to my NCMA DW who, after a pause said she'd get back to me......

I think I feel a migraine coming on. :confused:

[sarah707]

I thought I was clear about numbers and variations, but have begun to have doubts. :panic:

My first impression was that the rules on numbers had not changed under new EYFS. The only change is that Ofsted expect us to follow the rules without troubling them to issue a variation. So far, so simple.

Following a closer reading of EYFS Statutory Framework, section 3.40, I noticed that:-

Early Years children for whom we provide wrap-around care don't really count as EY (but do count as under-8's). So no change from the current EYFS.
But, "exceptions to the usual ratios can be made when childminders are caring for sibling babies, or when caring for their own baby." (My emphasis.)


This latter bullet point is significantly different from the current EYFS Statutory Framework, section 14, which doesn't refer to babies. It says, "Exceptions to these ratios may be made for siblings and to provide continuity of care in certain circumstances ..."

Given that the term "babies" is generally used by Ofsted to refer to under-1's, I'm now confused. Does this mean they're tightening up and CMs can no longer make exceptions for EY children who are between 1 year and school age?

I checked Ofsted's guide: Numbers and ages of children that providers on the Early Years and Childcare Registers may care for. Section 7 of that document says, "Paragraph 3.29 in the EYFS also allows childminders to care for more children in the early years age group through an overarching 'exceptional circumstances' statement." We normally interpret an exceptional circumstance as relating to the continuity of care for children and/or where sibling children are not babies."

That now looks as if Ofsted are contradicting their own EYFS Statutory Framework, section 3.40. It's even more confusing because the paragraph they refer to (3.29) which contains their "overarching 'exceptional circumstances' statement" is in the section that applies to group settings, and not the bit that refers to CMs.

I'm sure the devil is in the detail, as they say. but which particular detail is he in? :huh:

If it's a clarification, then it's not a very clear clarification (at best, it suggests they didn't say what they meant when they published new 'improved' EYFS.) :confused: :huh: :confused:

I've referred this to my NCMA DW who, after a pause said she'd get back to me......

I think I feel a migraine coming on. :confused:

You are overcomplicating it!! :panic:

The baby bit is clarifying the rules - giving us extra room to manoeuvre if you like. It is saying we can change numbers for older children for continuity of care etc AND for babies (sibling babies and our own children).

Do you know? I missed the bit that's stuck on the end of the group settings section as well first time round! I was pointed at it very firmly by my contact at Ofsted - she said it's relevant to everyone! It doesn't matter where it features in the requirements...

Just look at requirement 3.74 and you will see another example of where they are saying one thing at the start of the paragraph and something completely different at the end.

Does that make more sense and help prevent the migraine? :D

[bunyip]

Sarah, I'm convinced Ofsted should've got you to edit the EYFS documents. ;) :clapping:

It would've been clearer if the "overarching principle" hadn't been hidden away in the group settings section. There are other things in the rules for group settings that clearly don't apply to CMs, so Ofsted are only causing confusion by making the framework document so disorganised.

It's a pity they didn't actually say, "we can change numbers for older children for continuity of care etc AND for babies". Looks like they've attempted to clarify, and left an 'interpretation gap' for those which are in between the baby stage and the reception class. Why can't they just say what they mean? :angry:

I think you explnations make a lot more sense that Ofsted's. :)

[Mouse]

As far as I understand it, Ofsted don't write the EYFS Framework, the Department for Education does.

Ofsted's job is to then interpret it and make sure we all comply with the framework. They issue guidance sheets to help us interpret it as they will expect us to. That's why sometimes the framework document and Ofsted's guidance seem to differ. The framework says something that isn't clear, the Ofsted guidance helps to clarify it.

I don't think Ofsted can take all the blame for the inconsistencies :D

[bunyip]

As far as I understand it, Ofsted don't write the EYFS Framework, the Department for Education does.

Ofsted's job is to then interpret it and make sure we all comply with the framework. They issue guidance sheets to help us interpret it as they will expect us to. That's why sometimes the framework document and Ofsted's guidance seem to differ. The framework says something that isn't clear, the Ofsted guidance helps to clarify it.

I don't think Ofsted can take all the blame for the inconsistencies :D

OOPS! My mistake. :doh: Thanks for correcting me, Mouse.

Now, if it's a government department confusing me with contradictions, that DOES make sense.

How many playing fields was it.....? :rolleyes:

[AliceK]

OK, now I'm confused. I was reading another thread on here which people were writing to parents telling them that there may be occasions were numbers might be increased. That's why I wrote a letter so that if the occasion arises (and it may very well do as 3 of my parents are shiftworkers and sometimes need to change days) I can show that I have advised parents and explained about myself ensuring that I can meet all the childrens requirements.

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=106092

So do I need something like this or not??

xx

[bunyip]

OK, now I'm confused. I was reading another thread on here which people were writing to parents telling them that there may be occasions were numbers might be increased. That's why I wrote a letter so that if the occasion arises (and it may very well do as 3 of my parents are shiftworkers and sometimes need to change days) I can show that I have advised parents and explained about myself ensuring that I can meet all the childrens requirements.

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=106092

So do I need something like this or not??

xx

I don't think we necessarily have to inform parents of the potential to increase numbers. Remember, that potential is already there under the current rules. All that has really changed is that we won't need to apply to Ofsted for a variation - just make sure we're following the rules.

I don't suppose there's anything wrong with reminding parents, especially if you think it might become a relevant issue for your setting, so long as it doesn't lead to confusion. But don't forget, any increase above the norm is only meant to be a temporary thing, for exceptional circumstances, and is not meant to be the norm.