Trying to be fair with squabbles but this has gone too far :(

[BlondeMoment]

Hi there.
I've taken on 5 siblings for the school hols. Boy of 12 and girls of 10, 8, 6 and 5. I don't know them well but they have been testing me. They all seem to have learned what I will and won't put up with now. But.......

The 5 year old girl is proving herself to be a little madam. Throwing tantrums when she doesn't get her way and generally being quite a handful. her siblings give her what she wants when she strops. Not helpful.
Today my cousins came to join us for lunch (one is 26 and her daughter is 4).
The 5 year old - lets call her C, took a shine to my little cousin E who is 4 and wanted to sit with her at lunch time. Another of my mindees - N who is 6 and has been coming to me twice a week for two years, happened to sit where C wanted to sit. C was NOT impressed and after I'd asked what everyone wanted for lunch C told me quietly: "N said she didn't want to sit with E because she has brown skin" (E is mixed race).

I took C into the kitchen and said to her "Is this the truth because if it is, then N is going to be in a lot of trouble. Or are you lying because you wanted to sit with E? Because if you are, then we need to go and say sorry to N for telling lies about her". C then had a fit of tears and then refused to speak to me. I put her in the hall and said she should have a think and then tell me the truth when I came back. I got everyone else their lunch then went back to C and said "so are we going to punish N or do we need to go to her and say sorry for telling lies about her"? C wouldn't talk to me so I said I'd come back in 10 minutes. I was very calm. After 10 mins she still wouldn't talk to me so I said I'd ask her again in another 10 minutes and this went on for an hour. Eventually her Mum turned up to collect her and I said C had refused to talk to me regarding a suspected lie. Not wanting to involve the other children I told C's mum I would phone her later to explain in more detail.

I did this and told C's Mum the whole story as I had seen it. C's mum then told me that her other children - C's brother and sisters had told her that N is horrible to C whenever I'm not looking.
I just don't know about this. N is a very meek and to be blunt, quite wimpy child. I just can't see it. This new bunch can be quite manipulative and defiant. I know deep down what I think to be true....I think C is a piece of work. But what can I do?
I definitely need to keep a close eye but if this goes on when I'm not looking then what can I do? I really don't think N is capable of such a comment. I've seen C be a little monkey with my own eyes.
My cousin E's Mum said she saw the whole thing and that N said nothing the whole time. I believe her to be honest. But I could be wrong I guess???
What do I do? it's a serious allegation for a 5 year old to make but then they can hear these things anywhere.
What an earth do I do!???

[macherie]

Being a mother of six girls as well as a girl guide leader I've seen my own share of squabbles over the years. The one rule I live by is I don't listen to hearsay. Unless I, myself actually hear a remark or see an action, I don't act on it.

You have no proof of anything being said. I really wouldn't take any further action for now. N would be very upset at such an accusation and C would be getting exactly what she wants. At the same time you can't accuse C of lying. Next time something important happens she won't tell you, if she thinks you won't believe her.

In this situation I would have said to C 'that's not a very nice thing to say, but don't worry, if I hear N say it again I'll sort it out'. That way you are taking charge, you're listening to C's concerns but at the same time she's not getting a child in trouble for her own gain.


As for the siblings - I ignore screaming tantrums and tell the other sisters to do the same. When one of my girls throws a screaming fit she is asked to leave the room. If she won't go I will physically remove her. She can the sit in the hall and scream to her hearts content. If they're squabbling or fighting i tell them " You're a family, you're supposed to help each other not fight. She's your sister, she loves you and you should love her too."

Try not to let them push your buttons!

Best of Luck.

[BlondeMoment]

I think you're right. I'll leave it all to lay for now. It's just impossible for me to constantly watch them.
Having a sleepless night about this one. I can't stand lying :(


Being a mother of six girls as well as a girl guide leader I've seen my own share of squabbles over the years. The one rule I live by is I don't listen to hearsay. Unless I, myself actually hear a remark or see an action, I don't act on it.

You have no proof of anything being said. I really wouldn't take any further action for now. N would be very upset at such an accusation and C would be getting exactly what she wants. At the same time you can't accuse C of lying. Next time something important happens she won't tell you, if she thinks you won't believe her.

In this situation I would have said to C 'that's not a very nice thing to say, but don't worry, if I hear N say it again I'll sort it out'. That way you are taking charge, you're listening to C's concerns but at the same time she's not getting a child in trouble for her own gain.


As for the siblings - I ignore screaming tantrums and tell the other sisters to do the same. When one of my girls throws a screaming fit she is asked to leave the room. If she won't go I will physically remove her. She can the sit in the hall and scream to her hearts content. If they're squabbling or fighting i tell them " You're a family, you're supposed to help each other not fight. She's your sister, she loves you and you should love her too."

Try not to let them push your buttons!

Best of Luck.

[blue bear]

Fantastic tactics this lo has, so she tells you something about someone else(true or not) and it deflects away from her actions. Clever little madam.

[Pipsqueak]

Hi there.
I've taken on 5 siblings for the school hols. Boy of 12 and girls of 10, 8, 6 and 5. I don't know them well but they have been testing me. They all seem to have learned what I will and won't put up with now. But.......

The 5 year old girl is proving herself to be a little madam. Throwing tantrums when she doesn't get her way and generally being quite a handful. her siblings give her what she wants when she strops. Not helpful.
Today my cousins came to join us for lunch (one is 26 and her daughter is 4).
The 5 year old - lets call her C, took a shine to my little cousin E who is 4 and wanted to sit with her at lunch time. Another of my mindees - N who is 6 and has been coming to me twice a week for two years, happened to sit where C wanted to sit. C was NOT impressed and after I'd asked what everyone wanted for lunch C told me quietly: "N said she didn't want to sit with E because she has brown skin" (E is mixed race).

I took C into the kitchen and said to her "Is this the truth because if it is, then N is going to be in a lot of trouble. Or are you lying because you wanted to sit with E? Because if you are, then we need to go and say sorry to N for telling lies about her". C then had a fit of tears and then refused to speak to me. I put her in the hall and said she should have a think and then tell me the truth when I came back. I got everyone else their lunch then went back to C and said "so are we going to punish N or do we need to go to her and say sorry for telling lies about her"? C wouldn't talk to me so I said I'd come back in 10 minutes. I was very calm. After 10 mins she still wouldn't talk to me so I said I'd ask her again in another 10 minutes and this went on for an hour. Eventually her Mum turned up to collect her and I said C had refused to talk to me regarding a suspected lie. Not wanting to involve the other children I told C's mum I would phone her later to explain in more detail.

I did this and told C's Mum the whole story as I had seen it. C's mum then told me that her other children - C's brother and sisters had told her that N is horrible to C whenever I'm not looking.
I just don't know about this. N is a very meek and to be blunt, quite wimpy child. I just can't see it. This new bunch can be quite manipulative and defiant. I know deep down what I think to be true....I think C is a piece of work. But what can I do?
I definitely need to keep a close eye but if this goes on when I'm not looking then what can I do? I really don't think N is capable of such a comment. I've seen C be a little monkey with my own eyes.
My cousin E's Mum said she saw the whole thing and that N said nothing the whole time. I believe her to be honest. But I could be wrong I guess???
What do I do? it's a serious allegation for a 5 year old to make but then they can hear these things anywhere.
What an earth do I do!???

and there you have independent ADULT evidence that N done nothing.

Today I would be giving the children a talking to - in general and i would be keeping a VERY close eye on C - basically she stays within your eyes and hearing ALL the time - literally.
This child has learned to use a shocking tactic - such as skin colour- to deflect from her own behaviour/actions, and to get her own way.

Macherie - you say: "The one rule I live by is I don't listen to hearsay. Unless I, myself actually hear a remark or see an action, I don't act on it"
Whilst I appreciate what you say (having 3 children of my own and working as a childcarer for a long time)- as a parent, if I came to you and said my child has told me has happened at your place/in your care... you would be disinclined to take action? I know there have been plenty of times where I have had to go into school myself on behalf of my child - even times I have witnessed a child do something to mine and 'request' the teacher do something.
There was an independent adult witness that N said nothing, clearly indicating the other child was making up tales and that the other children then have lied too in sticking up for their sibling.

[JCrakers]

Some very good advice from macherie. :D

I always do the same with squabbles/tell tales. If I haven't witnessed it myself I don't act on it. I always say ' thanks for telling me, I will be watching so and so closely in case it happens again.

Being a large family helps when you need to be sneaky I suppose. You can all share naughty ideas :D

And if you know a child and he's been coming for two years you generally know what he would do and what he wouldn't.
Sounds like hard work :( hope your surviving the hols

[smurfette]

I think blonde moment I would have done it exactly like you, hard not to react when in the circumstances and my blood would have been boiling too at the lying and blaming.. ESP of a child you know quite unlikely to do it.

Good advice from pip there think I would swing with that tbh. Good luck, count the days!

[mushpea]

i would also say to C thanks for telling me I will keep and eye on N and see how we go I would also be telling mum that there was another adult present who was there the whole time and didnt witness N say anything to the others that she shouldnt have done

If I have a parent come to me and say a child said ..... to mine today then I would tell them I didnt hear it being said and that I would be keeping a close eye on both children when they are playing together.
Its a difficulty one because you dont know who is telling the truth if you yourself havent heard anything.

[BlondeMoment]

Thanks so much everyone for all the advise.
Yes it's been a long summer hols so far as this bunch are with me every morning :eek:

N wasn't with us today but everyone else was sat down and read out a list of Lisa's House Rules lol!
I explained why each point was a rule and how the rules keep us ALL happy.
We also talked about lying and why it was a terrible thing to do and that the liar always gets found out and how people always stop trusting a liar.
I hope I've got the message through. And yes I'm watching this madam like a hawk! But it's always the times when I'm not in the room that these things happen! I have to keep the children out of the kitchen when I'm preparing lunch as the oven is on and the kitchen is tiny. They are always sat in the loung at the table with colouring to do while they wait. Usually only 10 minutes or so but thats long enough isn't it! Grrrr.

Roll on next Month when we're moving house and the dining table can be in the (much bigger) kitchen!

:jump for joy:

I gathered from the children that their Mum had talked about this too them as well and a few admissions were made to making a few things up regarding N.
They find N 'annoying'. So I've told them if she does something annoying to kindly ask her to stop and if that doesn't work, tell me and I will help.
So difficult with older kids.
3 weeks to go lol

[BlondeMoment]

Fantastic tactics this lo has, so she tells you something about someone else(true or not) and it deflects away from her actions. Clever little madam.

Yes worrying isn't it. A little too clever for my liking. She also has her brother and sisters wrapped around her little finger so that the second she strops, they give into her and she gets her way. A trick learned at home I wonder.
I've mentioned this 'giving in thing' to Mum and she has agreed that her siblings aren't doing her any favours. Mum on the whole is on my side I think, but you never want to hear your little darling is being a little er...darling do you

[BlondeMoment]

I think blonde moment I would have done it exactly like you, hard not to react when in the circumstances and my blood would have been boiling too at the lying and blaming.. ESP of a child you know quite unlikely to do it.

Good advice from pip there think I would swing with that tbh. Good luck, count the days!

Thank you for the support :)
So hard sometimes isn't it.
This lot are exhausting!

[gegele]

i told MY children that whe they lie their tongue turn green to mummy eyes !!!:blush::blush: so if my DD tell the truth she says " it's the truth mummy look look poking her tongue out LOL:laughing::laughing:

mindees are too young to understand LOL