Help with number of under 8's

[Starfish007]

Hi, from Sept I will be starting a pick up service from our local school. I've got another parent visiting tomorrow re another school pick up. Could someone please tell me if these numbers sound ok:

Early years: 2 1/2 yr old and 3 yr old = 2

5-8 years: 4 yr old, 5 yr old and 7 yr old x 2 = 4

Own child 5 yr old: his grandma will collect him and look after him at her house.

Does this sound plausable? x

[dette]

I might be reading that wrong but you will be registered for 6 under 8 and that will include you child even if you are not physically collecting him ..so reducing your number of available spaces to 5.i think you may be 1 over

[Mouse]

Your son will still count in your numbers, even if he is not with you, so you will only be able to have a maximum of 5 children.

Why not get your mum registered as an assistant so she could do the school run with you & be at your house to cover the numbers?

[Bridey]

That's right - your own child counts as one of the under 8's whether he is there or not.

Which is not such a bad thing - I did this job to be with my child after-school. i can't imagine how he would have coped if he knew I looked after children here at home without him. He loved every minute of having friends here to play with.

[AliceK]

You will be 1 over your total numbers of 6 under 8's and that is a def No No from Ofsted.

xxxx

[butterfly]

You will be one over which Ofsted will not allow under any circumstance.

[Helen79]

You'll be 1 over but just wondering how soon the 7 year olds would turn 8? If they have a Sept/Oct birthday then maybe parents could find other arrangements for a few months and then you look after them once they're 8

[funemnx]

You'll be 1 over but just wondering how soon the 7 year olds would turn 8? If they have a Sept/Oct birthday then maybe parents could find other arrangements for a few months and then you look after them once they're 8

What i was thinking :thumbsup:

[Ballette]

Hi, from Sept I will be starting a pick up service from our local school. I've got another parent visiting tomorrow re another school pick up. Could someone please tell me if these numbers sound ok:

Early years: 2 1/2 yr old and 3 yr old = 2

5-8 years: 4 yr old, 5 yr old and 7 yr old x 2 = 4

Own child 5 yr old: his grandma will collect him and look after him at her house.

Does this sound plausable? x

What year are your 5 year olds in? Just wondering as you can only have 3 under 5's (including children in the reception year at school) and you have put a 4 year old and 2 5 year olds in your under 8 section! :confused:

[Goatgirl]

What year are your 5 year olds in? Just wondering as you can only have 3 under 5's (including children in the reception year at school) and you have put a 4 year old and 2 5 year olds in your under 8 section! :confused:

I have to disagree there Ballette,
Children aged 4 and in full time school are counted in your over 5's. Ofsted will change the wording on your certificate to show this. :thumbsup:

I agree Starfish, you will be over numbers with the list you have written and would advise you to register your Mum as an assistant and ask Ofsted to increase your under 8's numbers. If it suits you both for her to be at yours while you are over 6 under 8, obviously!

bws, Wendy :)

[Mouse]

What year are your 5 year olds in? Just wondering as you can only have 3 under 5's (including children in the reception year at school) and you have put a 4 year old and 2 5 year olds in your under 8 section! :confused:

If they are in full time school they will count as being out of the EYFS range and for the purpose of ratios can be counted as older.

For ratios it's sometimes easier to think of it in terms of pre-school children and school children.

[Ballette]

Oh dear, sorry guys and thanks for putting me straight.
Mouse, I thought they were still supposed to follow the EYFS until the end of the reception year :panic:

[Mouse]

Oh dear, sorry guys and thanks for putting me straight.
Mouse, I thought they were still supposed to follow the EYFS until the end of the reception year :panic:

Yes, you still have to follow EYFS with them until Aug 31st after their 5th birthday, but for the purpose of ratios you can count them as being out of the EYFS age range.

They are still in the EYFS, so you have to follow that with them, but if they are in full time school you don't have to count them as one of your EY children.

[Ballette]

Yes, you still have to follow EYFS with them until Aug 31st after their 5th birthday, but for the purpose of ratios you can count them as being out of the EYFS age range.

They are still in the EYFS, so you have to follow that with them, but if they are in full time school you don't have to count them as one of your EY children.

Ah right, sorry I was having a bit of a senior moment ;) Thanks xx

[Mouse]

Ah right, sorry I was having a bit of a senior moment ;) Thanks xx

I think we all have those from time to time :laughing:

[Starfish007]

Hi guys, thanks for replies. I thought I saw somewhere that if you had someone to look after your own child that they could be taken out of your numbers. I had a feeling that it may be an issue.

So how easy and quick would it be to get my mother-in-law signed up as an assistant? It would be literally for 2 hours every Thursday x

[Chatterbox Childcare]

You need to get her to complete an EY2 form. complete it on the internet, print off the last page, get her to sign, scan it and send it all to ofsted

By doing this you should have her CRB form through within the week

[blue bear]

Hi guys, thanks for replies. I thought I saw somewhere that if you had someone to look after your own child that they could be taken out of your numbers. I had a feeling that it may be an x
I've read this too, something along the lines of as long as the arrangement will not fail and mean you need to collect your child if poorly etc.

[Mouse]

I've read this too, something along the lines of as long as the arrangement will not fail and mean you need to collect your child if poorly etc.

I'm sure I've read something along the lines of if the cm's husband was at home he could take responsibility for their child meaning the cm didn't have to count him in her numbers.
I can't remember the exact details though and I do think it was allowed because it was the child's dad who was there (ie he has responsibility for his son already). A granny wouldn't have that automatic responsibility, IYSWIM.
And it would cause a problem if the grann couldn't collect the son for any reason.
Perhaps it would be worth a call to Ofsted.

[Starfish007]

This is the thread where I read it. It seems crazy to hire my mother-in-law as an assistant for 6 months due to being over my numbers for 2 hours once a week (the 2 yr old only actually comes 2 thursdays in a month due to parents shifts). My mother in law is retired and is more than happy to commit to these Thursdays.

http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=104267

Maybe its worth a call to Ofsted, if that fails I will go down the assistant route x

[Bridey]

This is the thread where I read it. It seems crazy to hire my mother-in-law as an assistant for 6 months due to being over my numbers for 2 hours once a week (the 2 yr old only actually comes 2 thursdays in a month due to parents shifts). My mother in law is retired and is more than happy to commit to these Thursdays.

http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=104267

Maybe its worth a call to Ofsted, if that fails I will go down the assistant route x

That thread applies to the 3 EYFS mindees you are allowed and the circumstances under which you could grant yourself a variation under the new EYFS. Under no circumstances are we to go over our 6 under 8's and your own child falls into those numbers whether they are present or not.

[blue bear]

I didnt read it as only for under eyfs , I read it as going to 6 under 8's not including your own when someone else has responsibility for them (this used to be the rules prior to ofsted, well where I lived it was anyway)
Think you may need to wait for the ofsted guidance due out this month.

[Starfish007]

I think I may need to start the process of registering her as an assistant just incase as I will need everything in place for Sept x

[sarah707]

If your child is under the care of someone else and that arrangement will not fall through if they are eg ill then you can grant yourself a variation for another child to fill their space.

There is no age restriction on the information I have been given.

Hth :D

[Starfish007]

Sarah, is it worth me speaking to Ofsted? I don't really speak their language though and they don't seem to have the ability to listen x

[sarah707]

I don't know to be honest - they haven't had their training yet so they are giving out different (and sometimes strange) advice.

A friend rang with a question today 3 times and got 3 totally different answers :rolleyes:

I'd normally say wait until the guidance comes out but if you need to plan before that then I can understand it's a worry.

xx

[Helen79]

If your child is under the care of someone else and that arrangement will not fall through if they are eg ill then you can grant yourself a variation for another child to fill their space.


I'm so pleased to hear they've finally changed to this new rule. I've always found it so frustrating that when my dd was on holiday with her grandparents 300miles away she was still included in my numbers. And whenever her dad has been off on holiday and looked after them and I haven't been responsible for them, I've still had to include them in my numbers. My children are dh's responsibility as well as mine and I've always felt that should be reflected in our ratios.

[Bridey]

I thought the whole variation process only applied to the EYFS children and that under no circumstances could we ever have more than 6 under 8's. I also thought that variations were for continuity of care - ie when a sibling comes along - not to take on new business.

(Not criticising you Starfish - just trying to get my head round everything! I would be really interested in what Ofsted do say to you if you ring them :thumbsup:)

[sarah707]

I thought the whole variation process only applied to the EYFS children and that under no circumstances could we ever have more than 6 under 8's. I also thought that variations were for continuity of care - ie when a sibling comes along - not to take on new business.

(Not criticising you Starfish - just trying to get my head round everything! I would be really interested in what Ofsted do say to you if you ring them :thumbsup:)

Hmmm the variation process applies to being flexible with your numbers of under 8s in exceptional circumstances.

You don't have to have 1 under 1 ... you can have all 6 between 5 and 8 if you want ... so the numbers are flexible under 8.

Yes you are right you can only ever have 6 under 8

What the advice is saying is that if your own child is in those numbers and is being cared for by someone else and that arrangement will not fall through (such as your child at nursery and might need collecting because of illness) then in the exceptoinal circumstance where you are allowing yourself a variation... and where you have risk assessed and parents are ok with it... then you can fill your own child's space.

Yes variations are for continuity of care and people are likely to come unstuck if they grant them to themselves for new business. That is not what variations are about.

Does that make sense? :D

[Bridey]

It does Sarah, thank you!

[Starfish007]

Well that was interesting, lady on the phone at Ofsted was very useful AND was a good listener! She says that from Sept it will be up to me to decide, and if I can prove on my Ofsted inspection that I have risk assessed, informed parents etc to show that I am not over my numbers and how I have gone about this she says its my call xxx

[Mouse]

Well that was interesting, lady on the phone at Ofsted was very useful AND was a good listener! She says that from Sept it will be up to me to decide, and if I can prove on my Ofsted inspection that I have risk assessed, informed parents etc to show that I am not over my numbers and how I have gone about this she says its my call xxx

I hope you took her name so you can quote that back if needed :laughing:

So if your son was off with his granny you'd be OK to have an extra child? What would you do if granny was ill or couldn't have your son for some reason? Would you have to turn one of the other children away so that you were still within your max of 6 under 8?

[sarah707]

So if your son was off with his granny you'd be OK to have an extra child? What would you do if granny was ill or couldn't have your son for some reason? Would you have to turn one of the other children away so that you were still within your max of 6 under 8?

That scenario is exactly why Ofsted have been reticent in the past to let us replace one of our own children's spaces with a childminded child!!

If there is any chance at all that you will be called back to collect / look after your child then you should not risk doing it.

Hth :D

[Starfish007]

My husband has already said that he would look after our son for the two hours as he is self-employed making him flexible, but I told him that if his Grandma is more than willing, which she is, in fact she is delighted we may as well let her do it. Its basically 2 thursdays out of each month from 3-5pm until April '13. So my husband will easily be available if grandma is too poorly to look after my son.

I do wish Ofsted would read from the same hymn sheet x