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jw19nr
10-06-2008, 07:53 PM
Hello. I am a bit confused about the whole 4/5 year old rule. I have heard that a 4 year old, who is in ful time education classes as an over 5? But then heard this might change with EYFS?

Bit confused but have had an enquiry for a 4 year old who is in full time school, but dont know if she would take up one of my under 5 places?

:o

crazybones
10-06-2008, 07:56 PM
I dont think anyone knows for definite yet. :(

jw19nr
10-06-2008, 08:10 PM
I dont think anyone knows for definite yet. :(

I had a feeling that would be the answer. :( It's so stupid, how are we meant to know what children to take on? What about those who would then be over numbers if they change it? :rolleyes:

Tily Bud
10-06-2008, 08:12 PM
Exactly, if they bring in the new rules i'll definately be over my numbers !! :eek:

breezy
10-06-2008, 08:14 PM
theres a very long thread on this somewhere if you want to get even more confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

miffy
10-06-2008, 08:16 PM
I thought this was all sorted and it stands as now that a 4 year old attending full time school counts as a 5 to 8 year old for your numbers.

Isn't that right?

miffy xx

Pipsqueak
10-06-2008, 08:37 PM
oh gawd don't get us started on this one again!!! lol


http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=9502&highlight=ratios

Pipsqueak
10-06-2008, 08:38 PM
I thought this was all sorted and it stands as now that a 4 year old attending full time school counts as a 5 to 8 year old for your numbers.

Isn't that right?

miffy xx

It actually hasn't been confirmed either way - I Ofsted are still seeking clarification themselves on it:(

sarah707
10-06-2008, 09:04 PM
It was sorted... and we were all happy ...

A 4 year old in school was classed as 5, all year, including during the holidays...

Then somebody had to go and change the wording in the eyfs updates :rolleyes:

Now nobody knows any more and it's potentially variations for all :crying:

We live in hope that the volley of emails they must have received after mucking about with it might mean a change of wording yet again :D

Cammie Doodle
10-06-2008, 09:32 PM
Sarah I printed something from Bromley just this afternoon about this, they have an update from Department of Children Schools and Families dated 5th June That clarifies that when a child starts school he/ she can be counted as an over 5 . These children may also be counted as over 5 DURING SCHOOL HOLIDAYS .:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :
They seem to think that the situation has now been clarified :rolleyes: Let's live in hope ;)

crazybones
11-06-2008, 05:45 AM
Sarah I printed something from Bromley just this afternoon about this, they have an update from Department of Children Schools and Families dated 5th June That clarifies that when a child starts school he/ she can be counted as an over 5 . These children may also be counted as over 5 DURING SCHOOL HOLIDAYS .:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :
They seem to think that the situation has now been clarified :rolleyes: Let's live in hope ;)

I have found it. :clapping: :clapping:

http://www.bromleycma.org.uk/news/news

UPDATE 5 JUNE 2008

DfCSF have responded as follows:

“I should explain that where four and five year olds attend school full-time and only attend the childminding setting before and after the school day, they can be counted as children over the age of five for the purposes of the ratio requirements.

These children may also be counted
as children over the age of five
during the school holidays.”

We are pleased that this situation has now been clarified

crazybones
11-06-2008, 05:47 AM
Although the NCMA on 10th June say different. :mad:

http://www.*************//MainWebSite/Newslisting581a1f04.aspx?Map=B1784A3D5483266C1FA20 2FB5D447ECB&NewsItemID=72&NewsGroupID=1

sarah707
11-06-2008, 06:48 AM
I saw that on Bromley - but a friend who asked Ofsted for clarification the other day was told that the situation was still under review.

I will wait until I actually see it, written down in words of one syllable that I can understand, on teachernet :D

SimplyLucy
11-06-2008, 06:50 AM
OFSTED told me on Monday that it will be confirmed in July :rolleyes:

miffy
11-06-2008, 06:50 AM
Well I did think it was all sorted according to an email I had from someone so
I'm sticking my head back in the sand!

Let us know Sarah when it's on teachernet :D

miffy xx

susi513
12-06-2008, 08:33 AM
The latest from DCSF was that it was never their intention to change the current situation and they are working with Ofsted to resolve the situation. (so why didn't they use the same wording as in the National Standards, I can't help but wonder?)

I suggested they use this opportunity to resolve the whole issue and make it so that a child is considered, for the purposes of child ratios, an older child from day one in reception class. Don't expect that to happen, but it would save Ofsted a whole load of variations every September.

I expect July's revisions to include an amendment to change it back to the situation we have now under the National Standards. But until it is changed, we should follow the current wording, and if that means you might need a variation for September I would apply for it now. Just in case. If you wait for the revisions and they still don't say the right thing or don't come out til later it won't much time to get a variation before September. But if you do get a variation it doesn't matter if you never use it iyswim.

FizzysFriends
12-06-2008, 09:57 AM
I asked the lady from ofsted yestarday and she said a 4 yr old doing 10 sessions a week is classed as 5yr old all the time.

sarah707
12-06-2008, 10:03 AM
I asked the lady from ofsted yestarday and she said a 4 yr old doing 10 sessions a week is classed as 5yr old all the time.

Yes, right now under the current standards, that's how it is ....

It's eyfs where the confusion has happened and there is still a lot of concern over whether people will need variations in September.

Susi's advice is good - apply early, get them in place and you'll be ready just in case the wording isn't changed in time :D

FizzysFriends
12-06-2008, 12:16 PM
I did ask her if it was changing and she said no, under eyfs it will be the same.

katickles
12-06-2008, 03:02 PM
OMG I can't keep up with this :panic:

Chimps Childminding
13-06-2008, 03:22 PM
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: I give up - someone wake me when a decision has been made pleeeeeeeeease!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!