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newbie
12-06-2012, 02:00 PM
It is so hard when a parent comes to you and insists that they don't want their LO to have anymore daytime naps. I understand that they may be difficult to get to bed in the evenings but on the other hand if they are desperate to have a kip during the day, is it so bad to allow them???

One particular LO has always had a nap for a good 2 hours in the afternoon. His mum said that he was becoming a real problem to get to bed in the evenings but he has never been easy with bed as it is. Mum says that he won't go to bed when she wants but sometimes I think she is trying to put him down too early. I did reduce LOs nap down to an hour to try to help but Mum says this also isn't working.

So today on Mum's instructions I have kept him up and not allowed him to go for a nap with the others. But now he is really, really grizzly, with lots of tears and tantrums over the smallest of things :(. Looks like I'm going to be in for a fun afternoon NOT!!!!! :panic::mad:

caz3007
12-06-2012, 02:02 PM
We arent allowed to deprive a child of sleep, its not meeting the childs needs. If its tired it needs an hour or will be harder to get to sleep at night as overtired. If you search on here there is lots of good advice on naps and making sure LO's get them if needed

Pipsqueak
12-06-2012, 02:04 PM
It is so hard when a parent comes to you and insists that they don't want their LO to have anymore daytime naps. I understand that they may be difficult to get to bed in the evenings but on the other hand if they are desperate to have a kip during the day, is it so bad to allow them???

One particular LO has always had a nap for a good 2 hours in the afternoon. His mum said that he was becoming a real problem to get to bed in the evenings but he has never been easy with bed as it is. Mum says that he won't go to bed when she wants but sometimes I think she is trying to put him down too early. I did reduce LOs nap down to an hour to try to help but Mum says this also isn't working.

So today on Mum's instructions I have kept him up and not allowed him to go for a nap with the others. But now he is really, really grizzly, with lots of tears and tantrums over the smallest of things :(. Looks like I'm going to be in for a fun afternoon NOT!!!!! :panic::mad:

this is one of those instances where the wishes of the parent cannot and shoudl not override the childs rights or needs.
Its a form of torture (recognised by the united nations) to deprive someone of sleep
Its a right to be able to sleep (basic human need)
Ofsted would not be happy about depriving a child of their basic human needs

keeping a child awake when they obviously need a rest is wrong and potentially harmful.

Try compromising with the parent and say you will cut down from 2hrs to 1hr to 40 minutes.. find a happy medium.

But i would NOT agree to depirving a child of sleep

rickysmiths
12-06-2012, 02:23 PM
I agree with Pip. It has also been proven that having a sleep does not stop children sleep at night in fact it actually aids a better nights sleep. It is not your fault that the parents don't have a good bed/sleep routine at home.

loocyloo
12-06-2012, 02:41 PM
LOL :laughing: i have a LO, who when she started with me in jan, mum said she didn't have a daytime snooze ( just 2yr ) ... she was a tired little thing, and after the first afternoon where she stayed awake, but wasn't happy, i now actively encourage a sleep! she usually has an hour or so. mum has always given me the impression that she wasn't that impressed that LO slept here, but i always said that if she wanted a sleep i would let her.

today, having not been for half term, mum said LO had had a couple of sleeps in the afternoon over the last couple of days, as she had been terrible at bedtime, and she realised that as LO hadn't been with me, she hadn't been having a daytime snooze !!! so LO will probably only have them with me, but mum has recognised how much happier ( and easier! ) LO is when rested! :D

Bridey
12-06-2012, 02:46 PM
I agree with Pipsqueak.

md0u0131
12-06-2012, 08:29 PM
I'm having this issue too. I look after a 22month old who I've had since 8months old. She has always had 1-2hr in the afternoon after lunch and needs it. This morning Mum turns up and says - in order to get X in bed a bit earlier I've decided to cut out all daytime sleep.

So this morning we went on a train ride, predictably LO fell asleep in car on the way home as she was shattered. As I lifted her out of the car (only had 15mins sleep) she woke up so I thought I'd see how she went. She stood crying at the bottom of my stairs screaming "bed bed". So I put her in bed for 45mins. Mum was really huffy with me! No doubt in the morning I'll be blamed if she hasn't slept well but it's not fair on the child to be grumpy and sleep deprived.

rickysmiths
12-06-2012, 09:35 PM
I'm having this issue too. I look after a 22month old who I've had since 8months old. She has always had 1-2hr in the afternoon after lunch and needs it. This morning Mum turns up and says - in order to get X in bed a bit earlier I've decided to cut out all daytime sleep.

So this morning we went on a train ride, predictably LO fell asleep in car on the way home as she was shattered. As I lifted her out of the car (only had 15mins sleep) she woke up so I thought I'd see how she went. She stood crying at the bottom of my stairs screaming "bed bed". So I put her in bed for 45mins. Mum was really huffy with me! No doubt in the morning I'll be blamed if she hasn't slept well but it's not fair on the child to be grumpy and sleep deprived.

It is an absolute fallacy that if a child doesn't sleep in the day they will go to bed better at night. It is actually the reverse. If a child needs and has a nap in the day they will sleep better at night. It is the parents who if truth be told do not have a good sleep routine with the children and the worst are the bed hoppers.

JoRoger
12-06-2012, 09:43 PM
I agree with Pip. It has also been proven that having a sleep does not stop children sleep at night in fact it actually aids a better nights sleep. It is not your fault that the parents don't have a good bed/sleep routine at home.

These are my thoughts entirely. I, and the child, went through hell a few months ago when the naps of my now 18m old mindee (who I have worked through notice on and now just have on one-offs) started to get chopped down because he 'didn't sleep at night'. He didn't sleep at night because he was ILL! And very much missing his parents, in particular Mum.

How old is the mindee in question?

When I went through all this with my mindee I was hugely naughty and fudged the times - the poor little boy was in full time minded care, permanently ill, very homesick, very much missing mummy - and they wanted him being woken up after 50 mins? I don't think so! Then when he falls asleep on the school run, won't wake up, screams for 45 mins then won't eat his tea, I get comments like 'oh we're in for a fun night tonight'. WELL THAT'S NOT MY FAULT!!!

Just fudge the times until they work out that it is actually something they are doing wrong, not you, that they probably are putting him to bed too early, and that giving him 1/2hr of their time before bed will do him the world of good. The amount of children that come home from minded care then get shoved straight into bed is untrue; yet somehow it is OUR fault for 'letting them sleep', when the child naturally won't go to sleep after being away from Mum for 9hrs!

As you can tell, things like this make me hugely cross!

miffy
12-06-2012, 09:45 PM
I wouldn't deprive a young child like these of a daytime sleep if they needed it - they would probably be so shattered they'd fall asleep at tea time anyway so much better to have an early nap after lunch and then be ready for bed at a reasonable time in the evening.

In all the examples on this thread it seems the "no sleep needed" is more for the convenience of the parents than for the good of the child :rolleyes:

Miffy xx

Tealady
13-06-2012, 12:27 PM
I agree with Pip. It has also been proven that having a sleep does not stop children sleep at night in fact it actually aids a better nights sleep. It is not your fault that the parents don't have a good bed/sleep routine at home.

I would somewhat disagree with this. It depends on the stage of the child. My DS is outgrowing his nap. He won't go down after lunch. He does get cranky and sensitive at tea time until bed but he will then go out like a light. However every couple of days he will sometimes fall asleep on the school run or about at about 4ish he will make himself a "nest" as he likes to call it, on the sofa and drift off to sleep. World war III won't wake him up then, however he will then not go to sleep until 9.00/9.30. We have a good routine in place but he isn't tired so at 2.5yrs old doesn't see why he has to go to bed. He doesn't have a paddy just chats to himself, then gets bored and cries for company. He then sleeps right round to his usual time without a problem. My DD was also exactly the same.

Unfortuneately as much as this is a pain for us as a family we just have to suck it up for now. It won't last forever and we have to accept if he needs to sleep then we have to let him.

If this LO is out growing her nap then a kip during the day may mean she doesn't go off straight away, but it is just a phase and it will right itself soon enough. She can't deny her child sleep, even if it doesn't fit with the family routine.

newbie
13-06-2012, 12:49 PM
Well I managed to keep the poor LO wide awake yesterday and felt really guilty about it as he was beside himself when he eventually got picked up. Told mum that he had been grumpy and this was probably down to no sleep but she just smiled and said well he should be in bed early then! When she got here this morning she commented on how LO could barely keep his eyes open when she got him home yesterday and ended up falling asleep on her so went to bed early before 7pm. In the next breath she commented on the fact that he woke up super early at 6am and she seemed quite put out about this!!!! Well I'm not surprised if he went to bed so early was my reply. I don't know how long this parent expects her child to sleep. Needless to say because LO got up so early, he has crashed straight after lunch on the sofa and I'm sorry to admit this, but I am not waking him up :panic:. I don't think it would be fair on him so I have left him to nap. Just hoping that mum doesn't go berserk when she collects this evening :mad:

Ripeberry
13-06-2012, 01:07 PM
What annoys me is that parents still act as if they don't have children. They expect to get in from work and do what they want and have the children out of the way in bed asap :(
They haven't seen their kids all day nor have the kids seen their parents and then they wonder why they won't go down to sleep.
With my own kids my DH never got in until after 7pm but he always wanted to see them so our bedtime was never earlier than 9pm and I was a part-time worker then as well.

Ripeberry
13-06-2012, 01:09 PM
Well I managed to keep the poor LO wide awake yesterday and felt really guilty about it as he was beside himself when he eventually got picked up. Told mum that he had been grumpy and this was probably down to no sleep but she just smiled and said well he should be in bed early then! When she got here this morning she commented on how LO could barely keep his eyes open when she got him home yesterday and ended up falling asleep on her so went to bed early before 7pm. In the next breath she commented on the fact that he woke up super early at 6am and she seemed quite put out about this!!!! Well I'm not surprised if he went to bed so early was my reply. I don't know how long this parent expects her child to sleep. Needless to say because LO got up so early, he has crashed straight after lunch on the sofa and I'm sorry to admit this, but I am not waking him up :panic:. I don't think it would be fair on him so I have left him to nap. Just hoping that mum doesn't go berserk when she collects this evening :mad:

Well ask her if she wants to provide the bamboo splinters to go under the fingernails to keep her child awake? It's pure torture making someone stay awake, poor child :( I would also say that the needs of the child override the needs of the adult as well.

JoRoger
13-06-2012, 01:13 PM
What annoys me is that parents still act as if they don't have children. They expect to get in from work and do what they want and have the children out of the way in bed asap :(
They haven't seen their kids all day nor have the kids seen their parents and then they wonder why they won't go down to sleep.
With my own kids my DH never got in until after 7pm but he always wanted to see them so our bedtime was never earlier than 9pm and I was a part-time worker then as well.

This really sums up my feelings. Yes it is hard to get in from a full day's work and yes you do just want to flump out on the sofa - by why not let the children flump out with you. So many people are just GO GO GO! then they wonder why they burn out and their children are climbing the walls.

OP - sorry to hear about the incident yesterday and then the catty comment this morning. I would have thought it would be obvious that the child would wake early if they fell exhaustedly into bed at an earlier time.

Maybe she'll listen to you on such matters - though really I don't know how you dare have an opinion, after all you're just a childminder!

hectors house
13-06-2012, 01:16 PM
I have got 2 up in bed at moment and 1 (3 year old) on sofa resting, we have been out for a walk in nearby woods all morning and she is really tired but won't give in and drop off, we have to leave to do school pick up in half an hour - I end up leaving early as I know she will fall asleep in the car and be grumpy if she hasn't had half an hour at least, so I have to spend that time sat in car entertaining other 2, who have had nap!

I have another boy who is 4, going to school in Sept who still loves his hour nap. I remember when I was at school we used to have to put out heads down on the table after lunch for a "rest" and lots of kids used to fall asleep.

Ripeberry
13-06-2012, 01:25 PM
I have got 2 up in bed at moment and 1 (3 year old) on sofa resting, we have been out for a walk in nearby woods all morning and she is really tired but won't give in and drop off, we have to leave to do school pick up in half an hour - I end up leaving early as I know she will fall asleep in the car and be grumpy if she hasn't had half an hour at least, so I have to spend that time sat in car entertaining other 2, who have had nap!

I have another boy who is 4, going to school in Sept who still loves his hour nap. I remember when I was at school we used to have to put out heads down on the table after lunch for a "rest" and lots of kids used to fall asleep.

Pity they don't do that anymore :( In France all the kids HAVE to have a nap after a long lunch, but then they are at school until 4.30pm.