Fire extinguisher/blanket compulsory?

[LauraS]

As per the title, are they?

I realise that we have to do all we can to keep children safe, but having seen a kitchen fire as a child (and my brother quite badly injured when he tried to put it out) I'm pretty sure that the safest thing I could do in the event of a fire would be to evacuate. I would not want to attempt to use a blanket or extinguisher, not least because i could injure myself and either delay or impair our escape. I'm also concerned that if I have these things and don't use them, there would be an implication insurance-wise.

Would ofsted accept my reasoning on this one, or are extinguishers etc compulsory?

[JoRo163]

As far as I'm aware they are compulsory - correct me if I'm wrong!

If it were me, I'd put them in place to cover yourself. Then in the event of a fire, you judge on the situation as to the safest way forward. Most likely to evacuate, but at least then you're covered and you won't be pulled up on it in your inspection.

[Pedagog]

We have a Fire Blanket, no fire extinguisher in the house. The purpose of such equipment is not to fight a fire, but to allow you prevent further spread so you can evacuate.

Personally if I needed to use my fire blanket I would cover fire and then evacuate with children, and await Fire Service.

Hubby is a fire officer and would have a fit if started fire fighting with the purpose of putting a fire out, other than if live was in immediate danger, ie if the fire was between me and a child or the exit.

[Pipsqueak]

the extinguisher is not compulsory - I have never had one. And what extinguisher would you have ..... do you know what each one is for seeing as different ones are used for different fires. Then there is the training to use on.

No fighting a fire is strictly for the professionals as Pedagog says. My bro is a FF and he would have an fit if he thought I was going to do that.

As to the blanket, I think it says in EYFS that you need to have one - but again its all to do with how you would use it, in what circumstance and so on.

Your best bet is get your local brigade out for an assessment and I bet they will zoom in on your alarms - have you got enough, properly placed around the house, have you practiced your exit, do you know how to escape from upstairs, where would you smash a double glazed window to break it and so on.

[moggy]

An important use of a fire blanket is to wrap child in to smother flames if their clothes are on fire. There is no point going to evacuate if a little one's clothes are on fire- you have to take action ASAP and a fire blanket would do the job very well. I have a fire blanket but do not have an extinguisher.

[JoRo163]

Ahhhhh, I'm glad I read this post. I won't bother with the extinguisher then.

I'll just go for the fire blanket. Are there any particilar specifications?

[LinziH]

I had a fire safety check the other day and was advised not to get anything, they said that most people who have the equipment concentrate more on trying to extinguish the fire than getting themselves/kids out and thats when people start getting hurt. Interesting point about the fire blanket for kids clothes though might get one for that scenario (and hopefully never use it!) xx

[LauraS]

Thank you. I wouldn't attempt to put out a fire unless it was teeny tiny, hence not wanting an extinguisher(s). Good point about smothering flames on a child with a fire blanket though, I think I might have one just for this.

[rickysmiths]

I had a fire safety check the other day and was advised not to get anything, they said that most people who have the equipment concentrate more on trying to extinguish the fire than getting themselves/kids out and thats when people start getting hurt. Interesting point about the fire blanket for kids clothes though might get one for that scenario (and hopefully never use it!) xx

If that were to happen you can just roll them on the floor and you can use any blanket which will stop the oxygen feeding the fire.

One would hope that through risk assessment that this scenario would never happen in our homes.

LinziH is correct. We actually don't need anything because our priority is to get out.

I was a Catering Manager and worked in Catering for 25 years before I became a cm and have been a cm for 18 years now. I have never seen a blanket used and only ever once seen an extinguisher used and it was used the wrong way and caused a bad injury to the person using it who thought they were being very clever when they would have done better walking away and letting the professionals deal. My staff had put a lid on a deep fat fryer that over heated, turned the power off and evacuated. Absolutely by the book and then this stupid person though they knew better, lifted the lid and squirted in a foam fire extinguisher. It blew boiling fat back in his face.

I was trained how to use a blanket and different extinguishers. I spent 3 full days training. As childminders we are not even taught the correct way to use a blanket never mind an extinguisher. It is actually quite scary.

How many of you have your blankets checked annually? How many have replaced their blanket in the last 10 years? If you haven't you may find it no longer meets current requirements in terms of the material it is made of or the size it is.

How many of you don't have it on the wall within a few strides of the hob in the kitchen? If you don't it is pretty useless anyway, especially if it is not firmly fixed to the wall because if it isn't you wouldn't get the blanket out of its case quickly enough.

I have a blanket on my wall to pay lip service to Ofsted. I would never use it.

I've had my rant now!!!

[Tink]

When I had the fire brigade out to fit my new smoke alarm I asked about a fire blanket and he said not to have one as people who do have one feel it necessary to use it rather than as the fire brigade say

"GET OUT AND STAY OUT"

[loocyloo]

i have a fire blanket and it has always been on the wall,

but at this house i have an aga and my local fire safety officer said no point me having a fire blanket. he also said that should ANYTHING be on fire, don't mess around trying to put it out, get myself and the children OUT, stay out and call the fire service!

so my fire blanket is stood on the side, whilst i decide if i am going to hang it up to please ofsted! ( i have a handy hook i usually hand my aga toaster on ... i could hang it there ... ;) )

[sarah707]

Just for information guys this is what it says in the revised EYFS (law from 1st September) about fires.

I know that fire officers will disagree with it because mine says it's wrong but this is the wording you will have to comply with -

Providers must have appropriate fire detection and control equipment (for example, fire alarms, smoke detectors, and fire extinguishers) which is in working order. Fire exits must be clearly identifiable, and fire doors must be free of obstruction and easily opened from the inside

It is interesting to note that the fire blanket requirement has disappeared and we have a new - for example - requirement for an extinguisher.

We will also have to consider how we prove it is in working order - does it need to be checked? How will we do that? What if the inspector asks for evidence?

I also know that police will be concerned about having doors that easily open from the inside as well - so this requirement might need some thinking through or we are risking children getting out!!

Hth :D

[LauraS]

Interesting, 'appropriate' is a subjective term and I would argue that to have an extinguisher in a home setting would not be 'appropriate' for all sorts of reasons.

Though of course, I wouldn't actually argue it. :laughing: I'd just pay lip service to it and buy one just in case the inspector on the day felt one was necessary, and inwardly resent it's presence in my kitchen.

[zippy]

They're definitely compulsory, you can choose either one, you don't need both, I choose a blanket due to being more useful in my eyes to wrap a child in of nessecary, also fire extinguishers need recharging or replacing so you would incur an extra cost, Whereas you dong with a blanket unless you're unfortunate enough to have to use it that is.

[rickysmiths]

They're definitely compulsory, you can choose either one, you don't need both, I choose a blanket due to being more useful in my eyes to wrap a child in of nessecary, also fire extinguishers need recharging or replacing so you would incur an extra cost, Whereas you dong with a blanket unless you're unfortunate enough to have to use it that is.

Fire blanket also should be checked and replaced regularly. They do change the required standards from time to time as well. In our Scout Hut we have to have all Blankets and Fire extinguishers checked by a qualified company annually.

[rickysmiths]

Interesting, 'appropriate' is a subjective term and I would argue that to have an extinguisher in a home setting would not be 'appropriate' for all sorts of reasons.

Though of course, I wouldn't actually argue it. :laughing: I'd just pay lip service to it and buy one just in case the inspector on the day felt one was necessary, and inwardly resent it's presence in my kitchen.

I must say I would argue this as well. You have to be properly trained to use an extinguisher and having had a Home Safety Check by the Fire Brigade whose advise is GET OUT GET OUT do not fight the fire what would we realistically be doing with the toddlers while we tried to have a go with a blanket or and extinguisher? We couldn't heard them into the garden and leave them, we couldn't keep them in a burning house.

How many, of what type of extinguishers and where would we need them in our homes? Do we need them upstairs and downstairs, I have quite a big area downstairs so would I need more than one?

Well I am not going to have any, they are not required in my home and it is my home not an institution. :thumbsup:

[zippy]

Fire blanket also should be checked and replaced regularly. They do change the required standards from time to time as well. In our Scout Hut we have to have all Blankets and Fire extinguishers checked by a qualified company annually.

Thanks for that Ricky smiths didn't realise, i need to go shopping then had mine for 5 years, it looks fine to me but best not to take chances

[rickysmiths]

Just for information guys this is what it says in the revised EYFS (law from 1st September) about fires.

I know that fire officers will disagree with it because mine says it's wrong but this is the wording you will have to comply with -

Providers must have appropriate fire detection and control equipment (for example, fire alarms, smoke detectors, and fire extinguishers) which is in working order. Fire exits must be clearly identifiable, and fire doors must be free of obstruction and easily opened from the inside

It is interesting to note that the fire blanket requirement has disappeared and we have a new - for example - requirement for an extinguisher.

We will also have to consider how we prove it is in working order - does it need to be checked? How will we do that? What if the inspector asks for evidence?

I also know that police will be concerned about having doors that easily open from the inside as well - so this requirement might need some thinking through or we are risking children getting out!!

Hth :D

:eek::eek: Since when have the Police been involved in our Childminding Practices? I have not seen or heard this.

I have RA all my rooms and the emergency exits. All my windows open 90% so are Fire Exit standard. I keep they key in the Patio Doors when I am working so they can be opened in an instant, mindees at the moment can't reach and older ones in the past have been shown what to do as part of Fire practices. The keys sit in the top lock of my back door so it is out of reach but had a car key on so if we exit I have a car key and my main keys are in a basket near the front door out of children's reach but easy for me to grab. Doors all kept clear. But I'm not changing anything or putting signs up that the Under 5s can't read anyway and the over fives are taught where to go and what to do.

[rickysmiths]

Thanks for that Ricky smiths didn't realise, i need to go shopping then had mine for 5 years, it looks fine to me but best not to take chances

I'm just trying to think who you can check with. I took mine down to the Scout hut with me because I let the guy in to do our annual check and it was him who told me mine was out of date and current standard.

It was 30 years old :blush:

I bought it when I started up a small catering business in 1978!

Ofsted won't have a clue about it and as I would never use mine anyway it literally sat on the wall to tick a box. I don't think I'd worry about a 5 year old one but it is interesting, who do we check with?

Maybe you need a friendly Scout Group and Volunteer to let the person who checks their extinguishers every year in for them!!

[sarah707]

:eek::eek: Since when have the Police been involved in our Childminding Practices? I have not seen or heard this.



We are very friendly with our community bobby - comes in handy if / when dd or ds do stupid things :rolleyes:

Anyway I was chatting to him about the new requirements and he said it's all well and good making exits easy for getting out in an emergency but if keys are in locks children can take them and put them in their toy boxes ... children as young as 2 can get a chair and climb up to get out etc etc...

He also says we need to think very carefully about where we hang / locate keys because of the risk of burglars reaching through letter boxes / smashing side windows etc.

I am not trying to be controversial here it's just something we all need to be aware of and reflect on before September :D

[LinziH]

Ive been thinking similar about keys - where is a convenient place to put them to grab them and get out in an emergency, but that is also well out of reach of children & not able to be reached by an intruder by breaking a window, getting through the letter box etc.

I got my pre reg visit date through for next week so will ask then about the fire blankets/extinguisers... Id rather not have them at all tbh, I dont have a safe out of reach yet handy place to keep them in case of emergency and Id never use it anyway...

[Jiorjiina]

I have a blanket but not an extinguisher because there are many different types for different fires.

Would we have to have them all just in case? It seems a little silly when frankly I'd do what everyone else says and just get everyone out.

[Cammie Doodle]

Food for thought Sarah :idea:

[rickysmiths]

We are very friendly with our community bobby - comes in handy if / when dd or ds do stupid things :rolleyes:

Anyway I was chatting to him about the new requirements and he said it's all well and good making exits easy for getting out in an emergency but if keys are in locks children can take them and put them in their toy boxes ... children as young as 2 can get a chair and climb up to get out etc etc...

He also says we need to think very carefully about where we hang / locate keys because of the risk of burglars reaching through letter boxes / smashing side windows etc.

I am not trying to be controversial here it's just something we all need to be aware of and reflect on before September :D


I think I might notice if a child started to haul a chair across a room and hall to a door :laughing:

Sorry it just made me smile it is something I looked at when we moved into our extension because I have French Doors in the playroom, the dining room and a back door and front door. The new back door was deliberately chosen as an old fashioned wooden door with a higher yale style lock and a lower chubb lock my front door is the same. I have the kind of yale lock on the new door that you double lock inside when you go out so during the day the key sits in that lock out of reach. My bunch of keys are in a basket very close but not next to or in sight of or in reach of the children. I have a car key on both sets as my evacuation plan puts us in the car and I have an emergency bag in the car, the plan means I only need one bag not one near every exit! I hate UPvc door with a passion for the very reason that they have to be locked to stop a child being able to use the handle and easily being able to open the door from the inside.

[claire250182]

I have a fire blanket on the wall in my kitchen. On both Ofsted visits, Mrs O asked if I had a blanket but never mentioned an extinguisher so not going to bother

[scoobydoo1]

I got a fire blanket with my start up tool-kit which also comes with your liability insurance, contracts, business forms, accident forms etc. I was told from the course that if your fire blanket is not up on the wall when Ofsted come round you will get an action so it must be hung up on the wall and not in a cupboard xx

[Chimps Childminding]

I've got a blanket, got rid of my extinguisher because it was out of date and never bothered replacing it!

I admit my blanket sits on top of my fridge :blush:! I don't have any wall space in the kitchen since we re-did to put it - suppose I need to sort that out:eek: If I had a fire I would get the children out and leave it for the experts to deal with!!

[Valencia]

I'm glad I read this post. I find the whole fire safety advice a bit conflicting.

Like rickysmiths said - surely we should get proper training on how to use the equipment if it is mandatory? Then on the other hand the fire safety officers are saying just 'get out'.

I haven't purchased my fire blanket yet, but will do so on the same basis that most have it, to comply with Ofsted. I don't think I will be getting a fire extinguisher, wouldn't know how to work it!

[LinziH]

I'm glad I read this post. I find the whole fire safety advice a bit conflicting.

Like rickysmiths said - surely we should get proper training on how to use the equipment if it is mandatory? Then on the other hand the fire safety officers are saying just 'get out'.

I haven't purchased my fire blanket yet, but will do so on the same basis that most have it, to comply with Ofsted. I don't think I will be getting a fire extinguisher, wouldn't know how to work it!

Thats the thing, I did ask the firemen for training on how to use blankets/extinguishers but they said they dont give it because if people got them then they would start trying to fight the fire themselves. They said particularly a parent or childminder with kids in the house just needs to get out... what are the kids doing while you're trying to put out the fire? what if you get injured and unable to get them out? A few kids in a burning house... no thank you!!

Im going to put it to the ofsted lady when she comes on thursday, if I need to get something I will just seems a bit silly really...