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View Full Version : A couple on interesting articles regarding de-regulation



Mouse
14-05-2012, 01:10 PM
These came through by email from Nursery World.

The first one is quite scary if that is really what they are thinking :panic:

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/bulletin/nurseryworldupdate/article/1131463/?DCMP=EMC-CONNurseryWorldUpdate

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/bulletin/nurseryworldupdate/article/1131462/?DCMP=EMC-CONNurseryWorldUpdate

marnieb
14-05-2012, 01:13 PM
Am I being stupid/missing the point entirely, but how will any of this make it better being a childminder??????

moogster1a
14-05-2012, 01:16 PM
So the agency would have a say in our fees and could then take 10% of what we earn!!! Don't hink many would be overly happy about that.

moggy
14-05-2012, 01:48 PM
I read an article last week about how the Dutch system had failed in many ways and is being currently revised to make it more tight on regulation following falling standards due to lack of regulation! Was that article linked from this forum? I can't find it now.

loocyloo
14-05-2012, 01:54 PM
So the agency would have a say in our fees and could then take 10% of what we earn!!! Don't hink many would be overly happy about that.

:eek:

i would not be happy by that and the only way i would deal with it, would be to put my prices up 10% !!!

also ... they seem to forget that we need to earn an income! we don't do this job JUST for love!

Mouse
14-05-2012, 01:55 PM
I read an article last week about how the Dutch system had failed in many ways and is being currently revised to make it more tight on regulation following falling standards due to lack of regulation! Was that article linked from this forum? I can't find it now.

There was an article about that in nursery world as well, but I haven't got time to look now. I'll look later. Perhaps search their website?

Bluebell
14-05-2012, 01:57 PM
If it costs £400 per childminder to visit them then they should be looking at their costs not at us childminders!
How on earth can they justify that cost?! The inspector sure as heck does not get paid that for every childminder she visits and I'm sure the administrators don't get paid much either. While cutting the need to have to apply for variations every time will help cut paperwork I still don't get how it can cost that much to inspect childminders!!
of course false allegations waste a lot of time and money as they have to be inspected but is that even included in those inspection figures given? Perhaps people who make false and malicious allegations should be fined that would solve 2 problems then!

loocyloo
14-05-2012, 02:05 PM
If it costs £400 per childminder to visit them then they should be looking at their costs not at us childminders!
How on earth can they justify that cost?! i wondered that too!The inspector sure as heck does not get paid that for every childminder she visits and I'm sure the administrators don't get paid much either. While cutting the need to have to apply for variations every time will help cut paperwork I still don't get how it can cost that much to inspect childminders!!
of course false allegations waste a lot of time and money as they have to be inspected but is that even included in those inspection figures given? Perhaps people who make false and malicious allegations should be fined that would solve 2 problems then! very good plan :D

maybe they need to pay their inspectors less?!;)

uf353432
14-05-2012, 02:08 PM
:eek:

i would not be happy by that and the only way i would deal with it, would be to put my prices up 10% !!!

also ... they seem to forget that we need to earn an income! we don't do this job JUST for love!

from her proposals you wouldn't be able to put up your prices - they would be set by the agency!

moogster1a
14-05-2012, 02:11 PM
I would imagine that the agencies would have targets that they have to provide "affordable childcare" therefore screwing a large number of us out of our living.
Will they be dictating prices at nurseries? No, I think not.... there again, we only do it for a bit of pin money, don't we, while our kids are at school.

Ripeberry
14-05-2012, 02:13 PM
from her proposals you wouldn't be able to put up your prices - they would be set by the agency!
This must be a policy of the 'Looney Party' !! It can't happen and must not happen. End of!

kindredspirits
14-05-2012, 02:43 PM
one of the articles linked from that page suggests that the NCMA inspection matters survery was asking for responses from members and non-members - wonder where they picked that snippit of false information up from1?!

Bridey
14-05-2012, 03:04 PM
I certainly would NOT be happy at being advised or inspected by a nursery! Only one in this area is any good and we've just had another shut down and the owner sent to court over physically disciplining the children. That's the second time that has happened at two different nurseries in a very small town. :eek:

Neither would I be happy with someone else negotiating my fees and contracts for me!!! :eek: :angry:

OMG (sorry - posting as I read!!) - and as for paying a percentage of my salary to an agency ... AAAAAAGH! :censored::censored:

Mouse
14-05-2012, 03:13 PM
Could this possibly be something we're all agreeing on :clapping::laughing::p

Hopefully it will make people see why we need to campaign against this. I know a lot of cms like the idea of de-regulation, but do they really understand what the reality of it could be?

uf353432
14-05-2012, 03:15 PM
I certainly would NOT be happy at being advised or inspected by a nursery! Only one in this area is any good and we've just had another shut down and the owner sent to court over physically disciplining the children. That's the second time that has happened at two different nurseries in a very small town. :eek:

Neither would I be happy with someone else negotiating my fees and contracts for me!!! :eek: :angry:

OMG (sorry - posting as I read!!) - and as for paying a percentage of my salary to an agency ... AAAAAAGH! :censored::censored:

Nope I quite agree, I run my own business and one of the perks is that I have the income that I can plough back into my business for resources - if they dictate my income then i'm sorry but i'm out of here because it will really limit what I can do. I'm self employed and proud of it.

onceinabluemoon
14-05-2012, 03:22 PM
Nope I quite agree, I run my own business and one of the perks is that I have the income that I can plough back into my business for resources - if they dictate my income then i'm sorry but i'm out of here because it will really limit what I can do. I'm self employed and proud of it.

Snap which would be a shame because I've been building this up bigger and better every year and its finally getting where I want it to be. May all be for nothing ...

Mouse I shared your articles on a FB group for childminders in the southwest that I started up recently, hope thats ok. x

Heaven Scent
14-05-2012, 03:29 PM
I for one do not want to be inspected as part of a cohort or group - our local early years team have been spouting their mouths off about us being inspected as part of the the Childrens Centre who would be inspected by Ofsted and we in turn would be inspected by them under the umbrella of the Childrens Centre - Well that's a joke - our local CC was awarded Satisfactory by Ofsted whereas most of the childminders in the area are graded good with one Outstanding other areas under the same LA are the same - how on earth can CC staff who are graded "Satisfactory" then come out to inspect us - and to make matters worse it is suggested that we should pay 10% of our incomes for the pleasure. Yeah right!!! :angry:

Because of Recent improvements in the standard of childcare offered here in the uk - (and with the blessing of EU funding) Most of us Childminders have qualifications in Childcare (a great deal of whom have level 3 or above). We all manage our own accounting systems and have written our own reems of policies, audits, risk assessments etc - Hello out there - we don't need an agency to help us we've done it now and its all securely in place - cheeky so and so's who do they think they are??????

I also think allowing our Network Co-ordinators inspect us would be a disaster as there is a risk of grades being tainted by differences in personality and personality clashes etc - I say a huge big NO No to this:panic::panic::panic:

Mouse
14-05-2012, 03:32 PM
I for one do not want to be inspected as part of a cohort or group - our local early years team have been spouting their mouths off about us being inspected as part of the the Childrens Centre who would be inspected by Ofsted and we in turn would be inspected by them under the umbrella of the Childrens Centre - Well that's a joke - our local CC was awarded Satisfactory by Ofsted whereas most of the childminders in the area are graded good with one Outstanding other areas under the same LA are the same - how on earth can CC staff who are graded "Satisfactory" then come out to inspect us - and to make matters worse it is suggested that we should pay 10% of our incomes for the pleasure. Yeah right!!! :angry:

Because of Recent improvements in the standard of childcare offered here in the uk - (and with the blessing of EU funding) Most of us Childminders have qualifications in Childcare (a great deal of whom have level 3 or above). We all manage our own accounting systems and have written our own reems of policies, audits, risk assessments etc - Hello out there - we don't need an agency to help us we've done it now and its all securely in place - cheeky so and so's who do they think they are??????

I also think allowing our Network Co-ordinators inspect us would be a disaster as there is a risk of grades being tainted by differences in personality and personality clashes etc - I say a huge big NO No to this:panic::panic::panic:


Perhaps to get their money's worth ou of childminders they should send us in to inspect the children's centres and nurseries :clapping::D

Mouse
14-05-2012, 03:34 PM
Mouse I shared your articles on a FB group for childminders in the southwest that I started up recently, hope thats ok. x

Share away :thumbsup: I get updates from nursery world via email and on Facebook. It's worth signing up for updates and you don't need to subscribe for a lot of them.

Tatjana
14-05-2012, 03:38 PM
Not having read the links, but going on the posts I've read, we're self employed and running out own businesses....so how can anyone make us charge what they say and then pay them 10% of our money, beyond ridiculous!!!!:panic::angry:

Heaven Scent
14-05-2012, 03:48 PM
Perhaps to get their money's worth ou of childminders they should send us in to inspect the children's centres and nurseries :clapping::D

Here here - where do they get off with the insults?? They made us improve our game buy gaining qualifications till they come out of our ears, produce more paperwork than it would take a small forest to produce, buy equipment for every eventuality and now we are to reduce our costs, pay someone 10% or our wages so they can down grade us - I think not!!!!

JCrakers
14-05-2012, 03:57 PM
If any of this happens I shall be giving up definitly :(

That will be 1 less childminder

moogster1a
14-05-2012, 04:08 PM
I'd like to know how they would enforce the 10% bit. At the moment I'm pretty sure that my tax affairs are between myself and the taxman and remain confidential.
Does this mean I'd have to share my income details with the muppets at my local surestart centre. Absoloutely no way!
That would mean they'd have access to my bank account statements in order to make sure I'm not fiddling them out of some of their 10%.
Any legal bods. on here know how wrong that would be?!

Heaven Scent
14-05-2012, 04:18 PM
I'd like to know how they would enforce the 10% bit. At the moment I'm pretty sure that my tax affairs are between myself and the taxman and remain confidential.
Does this mean I'd have to share my income details with the muppets at my local surestart centre. Absoloutely no way!
That would mean they'd have access to my bank account statements in order to make sure I'm not fiddling them out of some of their 10%.
Any legal bods. on here know how wrong that would be?!

I think what happens in the netherlands is that the minders just childmind and collect the money and the agency does everything else - so when they are get one of these spot checks it is probably a bit like the old Social Services checks where they chat to you and ensure your lead on the kettle isn't too long etc.

Mouse
14-05-2012, 04:24 PM
I think that in some countries where there are similar schemes, the agency collects the money and passes it on the cm...obviously less their 10%!

uf353432
14-05-2012, 04:24 PM
I think what happens in the netherlands is that the minders just childmind and collect the money and the agency does everything else - so when they are get one of these spot checks it is probably a bit like the old Social Services checks where they chat to you and ensure your lead on the kettle isn't too long etc.

I actually think its worse than that - I interpreted it that they set the rates collected the money and then paid the childminder less their 10%. :panic:

loocyloo
14-05-2012, 04:24 PM
when i was working in australia as a nanny, i worked for an agency who invoiced the parents and then paid me. i was getting a good wage from it, but i guess the parents paid a higher fee to the agency!

(i wouldn't have done it for a permanent job, but it was great for the 9 mths i was there, and only wanted to work 2 days a week! )

but i guess that rather than us having to pay whichever agency, it would be the parents paying the agency and them paying us, after taking their 10%, and i presume, they would set the fees too. a bit like the funding for 3 & 4 yr olds. you have no choice about the amount, just if you wish to take the funded children or not!

cross posted! both saying the same!

moogster1a
14-05-2012, 04:28 PM
OMG!! So it would all be done through agencies. What about the grand British tradition of doing cash in hand?!! ( how would they know any different if you came to a "private arrangement".)
I would do everything I possibly could to wriggle out of such a ridiculous invasive scheme. Like I say, will nurseries, pre schools and nannies be subject to the same legislation or just us CM';s 'cos we're not "real" businesses?

Bridey
14-05-2012, 04:29 PM
when i was working in australia as a nanny, i worked for an agency who invoiced the parents and then paid me. i was getting a good wage from it, but i guess the parents paid a higher fee to the agency!



Yes, that happens here but the agency employed you. The tax office doesn't like self-employed nannies. However we run our own businesses and our fees and our contracts are our business. You don't become self employed to have someone else telling you what to charge and skimming your income!

Heaven Scent
14-05-2012, 04:43 PM
I actually think its worse than that - I interpreted it that they set the rates collected the money and then paid the childminder less their 10%. :panic:

I agree - all you do is childmind - by the looks of it they write all the policies etc etc - they say jump and you say how high - I think not - I cant see it being cheaper the agancies will need to make a profit and no business is cheap to run in this country - I think the system works just fine as it is (well it needs some tweaking where Ofsted are concerned)

Can you imagine the huge set up costs that would be involved in it - Its doesn't bear thinking about - they think we are silly little stay at home mums with no brains - well he Buster we have brains and some spare to burn so back off quick before you get knocked down in the Great Childminder Stampeed!!!!

uf353432
14-05-2012, 04:47 PM
Yes, that happens here but the agency employed you. The tax office doesn't like self-employed nannies. However we run our own businesses and our fees and our contracts are our business. You don't become self employed to have someone else telling you what to charge and skimming your income!

:clapping: well I certainly don't!!!

So we all become nurseries then....only we keep our ratio's really small and there will be lots of micro nurseries all around the country - around 55 thousand of them and Ofsted regulate them. :D

Or!!!

Ofsted actually look at the way in which they manage inspections - for those acheiving good or outstanding every 5 years and sticking to 3 yr inspections for below good childminders. Working smarter by doing multiple inspections in the same geographical location in the same time frame, doing shorter inspections so that they can do up to 3 inspections in one day.

Mouse
14-05-2012, 04:52 PM
:Ofsted actually look at the way in which they manage inspections - for those acheiving good or outstanding every 5 years and sticking to 3 yr inspections for below good childminders. Working smarter by doing multiple inspections in the same geographical location in the same time frame, doing shorter inspections so that they can do up to 3 inspections in one day.

But that would take common sense - or an organisation where the left hand knew what the right one was doing. Don't think Ofsted quite fit the bill :p

Heaven Scent
14-05-2012, 05:05 PM
Lets all register as childcare on a domestic premises - would we be childminders then??

Bridey
14-05-2012, 05:06 PM
:clapping: well I certainly don't!!!

So we all become nurseries then....only we keep our ratio's really small and there will be lots of micro nurseries all around the country - around 55 thousand of them and Ofsted regulate them. :D

Or!!!

Ofsted actually look at the way in which they manage inspections - for those acheiving good or outstanding every 5 years and sticking to 3 yr inspections for below good childminders. Working smarter by doing multiple inspections in the same geographical location in the same time frame, doing shorter inspections so that they can do up to 3 inspections in one day.

I like both those ideas! :D

zippy
14-05-2012, 07:36 PM
:clapping: well I certainly don't!!!

So we all become nurseries then....only we keep our ratio's really small and there will be lots of micro nurseries all around the country - around 55 thousand of them and Ofsted regulate them. :D

Or!!!

Ofsted actually look at the way in which they manage inspections - for those acheiving good or outstanding every 5 years and sticking to 3 yr inspections for below good childminders. Working smarter by doing multiple inspections in the same geographical location in the same time frame, doing shorter inspections so that they can do up to 3 inspections in one day.

Oh now don't be silly, that would be far too much of a simple idea. When can we have another vote and get these muppets out of power. I knew they'd be bad news, but even I couldn't have predicted they'd do this. I for one will be leaving if this comes about.

loocyloo
14-05-2012, 07:47 PM
:clapping: well I certainly don't!!!

So we all become nurseries then....only we keep our ratio's really small and there will be lots of micro nurseries all around the country - around 55 thousand of them and Ofsted regulate them. :D

Or!!!

Ofsted actually look at the way in which they manage inspections - for those acheiving good or outstanding every 5 years and sticking to 3 yr inspections for below good childminders. Working smarter by doing multiple inspections in the same geographical location in the same time frame, doing shorter inspections so that they can do up to 3 inspections in one day.

i agree bridey, these sound like great ideas ! :clapping:

Tatjana
14-05-2012, 07:54 PM
Not having read the links, but going on the posts I've read, we're self employed and running out own businesses....so how can anyone make us charge what they say and then pay them 10% of our money, beyond ridiculous!!!!:panic::angry:

Lady Haha
14-05-2012, 09:44 PM
:clapping: well I certainly don't!!!

So we all become nurseries then....only we keep our ratio's really small and there will be lots of micro nurseries all around the country - around 55 thousand of them and Ofsted regulate them. :D

.

This is a fantastic idea!!! Is it really that simple though? I know you were only half joking, but is it a real possibility? I would register as an 'out of school club' as I only care for schoolies. Even if it cost me more to do it that way, I would still do it! There's no way I could work for an agency and have them setting my rates and collecting the cash etc. I love the independence this job gives me. I love running my own business and making my own rules and being my own boss. I would be devastated if those keys things were taken away from me :( The very fact that I CHOOSE to look after schoolies only would probably go against me if an agency were in charge. I doubt I would be allowed to be so picky. But why shouldn't I be picky? It's MY business!!!:angry:

uf353432
15-05-2012, 07:28 AM
This is a fantastic idea!!! Is it really that simple though? I know you were only half joking, but is it a real possibility? I would register as an 'out of school club' as I only care for schoolies. Even if it cost me more to do it that way, I would still do it! There's no way I could work for an agency and have them setting my rates and collecting the cash etc. I love the independence this job gives me. I love running my own business and making my own rules and being my own boss. I would be devastated if those keys things were taken away from me :( The very fact that I CHOOSE to look after schoolies only would probably go against me if an agency were in charge. I doubt I would be allowed to be so picky. But why shouldn't I be picky? It's MY business!!!:angry:

You know it might be a route I go down as well - I make alot of income from after school children, I could have a larger ratio as well.

TooEarlyForGin?
15-05-2012, 12:17 PM
from her proposals you wouldn't be able to put up your prices - they would be set by the agency!

But that would create an even bigger issue as we would no longer be self-employed, so do we get holiday pay/sick pay/pension rights, someone to do all our bookwork? Me thinks not !!!

It's a small world
15-05-2012, 01:03 PM
I think it is totally ridiculous and have sent a letter to my local MP and newspaper about the future of childminders and how badly we are treated etc. If the govenrment want to make these changes let them go ahead (not saying they should as totally against it) but it isn't going to improve anything in fact it will become worse as their unemplyment figures will go through the roof as will their benefits as I will be unable to find another job due to personal circumstances. I think the way we are treated is disgusting. Sore topic with me at the moment :angry::angry: