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View Full Version : Malicious complaints causing unnecessary panic?



jumpinjen
11-05-2012, 07:33 AM
Hi everyone,

I have noticed what seems to me to be a big increase in the number of malicious complaints being discussed here and it has left me feeling vulnerable and wary of being attacked in such a way.

I was thinking though that maybe it seems out of proportion as the discussions are concentrated here when members seek support and it isn't representative of childminding experiences as a whole?

or is it a growing problem?

I asked my DO last week (the rottweiler!!) if there were any instances in our area and she said no...

Wondering if it is a aimilar phenomenon to the fear of parents of stranger danger when in fact most children that are harmed are harmed by family members/friends that they are already know, but the effect is that parents are scared to let their children roam....

Is the same beginning to happen to us? Are we getting scared of potential complaints? Might it stop people from taking on families and change the way we accept or view potentail clients?

Just wondered what others thought about this!!

Jen x

kindredspirits
11-05-2012, 08:03 AM
i've never been on the end of a complaint (touch wood) so i don't really think about or worry about it.
you have to take everything with a pinch of salt, there have been 3-4 threads over the past few weeks about vicious parents and we have how many members, 17000??? i'm not suggesting it wasn't terrible for those cm's involved but i don't think its the norm iykwim.

Bridey
11-05-2012, 08:13 AM
I too don't think its the norm but the stories on this forum have made me aware that none of us are immune to this and I have ever so slightly tightened up my paperwork and practice as a result.

People who have seen my posts have probably become aware how important I feel it is to be professional and business-like and maintain a professional relationship with the parents rather than try to get them to be my best friend and encourage unreasonable requests or demands. Again, this doesn't make me bulletproof to a malicious complaint but I believe that it does mean the parents have respect for me and what I do which I hope would make this situation less likely.

Anyone who has this done against them have my sympathy and support.

PixiePetal
11-05-2012, 08:17 AM
I think it is a sign of the times. When I started minding things in general were much more relaxed. Less paperwork and covering our backs - RAs/policies etc. Society has changed generally in this no win no fee etc culture we live in.

Everything we do has to be covered and some parents know it is worth a try to get out of paying etc. I have never had trouble with payments but been on the end of an allegation of 'possible harm' to a child. Totally OTT and unnecessary situation. Had the person who reported asked me I would have been able to explain. In the 'old days' I am sure they would have just asked :rolleyes: and things would have been sorted without the pain and upset I went through.

Well that's my view of it :)

Mummits
11-05-2012, 08:17 AM
I think we are generally turning into a litigation culture, and there are now a lot of people out there that take the view that if they don't like the service they are getting, they will "get even" rather than simply walking away.

I have to say I am a bit paranoid about malicious complaints as I was on the receiving end of a threat to make such a complaint to OFSTED over what was basically a dispute over paying notice. It did bring home the fact that a nasty parent could easily ruin my reputation and business, and I was surprised at the time to learn how many fellow CMs locally had had similar experiences.

It has made me a bit wary and more critical about taking on new families - whereas before I might think someone a bit odd shall we say but probably nice enough, I now tend to think oh oh they might be trouble. I am particularly averse to anyone who seems to be a bit penny-pinching, which is probably unfair if they are genuinely stretching their budget to afford childcare, but then most disputes do seem to be a bout money don't they, so maybe best to steer clear of people for whom it is a big issue (especially if they seem more bothered about the cost than the quality of provision).

sarah707
11-05-2012, 08:23 AM
Having been on the end of a malicious complaint and knowing the devastation (personally, to my business etc) it can cause I work every day as if Ofsted might knock on my door.

I write my diary every day so I can refer back to anything that might have happened... I write up risks / near misses... I note if things have changed in children's behaviour... I quickly alert parents if lies are being told... parents sign incident reports etc straight away and are always told if we have any worries...

Like Bridey I have tightened up everything I do since that dreadful day so that, hopefully, if it does happen again I can manage things better than I did then (think gibbering wreck).

I also think that a lot of parents are better informed than they were - through advice on dedicated parent forums they know that they can probably get out of paying a bill if they ring Ofsted and make a complaint.

Plus don't forget Ofsted have made it a requirement for us to tell them how to complain against us!!

I get a lot more calls, emails and pms about complaints than ever appear on this forum... and I think a lot of established members like myself do too.

None of us are immune and while we don't like to think about it we must be aware that it might happen.

xx

Bridey
11-05-2012, 08:23 AM
I am particularly averse to anyone who seems to be a bit penny-pinching, which is probably unfair if they are genuinely stretching their budget to afford childcare, but then most disputes do seem to be a bout money don't they, so maybe best to steer clear of people for whom it is a big issue (especially if they seem more bothered about the cost than the quality of provision).

I agree! I have learned to listen to the 'warning bells' that sound in my head at the enquiry/interview stage. It happens very rarely but when it does I do stop and have a good think about what I could be taking on.

Kiddleywinks
11-05-2012, 08:28 AM
I think as a whole, there aren't that many serious complaints, it just seems like it on the forum because for a lot of people it's their first line of help and support (and that's a good thing)
That said, I do think there is an increase in complaints that initially start over money, and then get escalated when parents realise fees and contracts have nothing to do with ofsted

I have reworded, swopped and changed my policy documents so much, as a result of what I've read on here, so although it must be a horrendous experience for those involved, thanks to the forum, we can learn by others experiences, as I doubt we'd get to hear of these incidents, some extremely serious that I doubt many would have themselves iyswim

Would I be upset if something happened to me?, yes, of course, but do I feel confident that I would get support? Absolutely

loocyloo
11-05-2012, 08:30 AM
i had a malicous complaint quite a few years ago ... it turned out to be a mother who had ( for the first time ) attended a gym class i took the children to, and boiled down to the fact that she didn't think i should be at the clas, as it was 'for parents' and she also though mothers should not go to work !!!

the inspector who came to see me was laughing, as this lady made up such stories, and whilst the inspector was at my house, i rang the lady who ran the gym class and she came over and confirmed everything i said!

but my concern was, THIS wasn't a parent, or anyone i knew! just a random stranger! she had asked the gym staff who i was and they told her, thinking she was interested in childcare!

EmmaReed84
11-05-2012, 08:32 AM
I have to admit I have read several posts and it has got me thinking if I really want to be a CM. Don't get me wrong I love doing what I do but I am not the hottest person for paperwork and getting every little thing signed and I do forget to get parents to sign thngs on the day, but I did get them signed. I am sure I am not alone on this.

I am very lucky, both sets of parents are lovely. All of them come in, say hello to the kids, know all their names and have little chats and a laugh with them and it is a nice relaxed environment and I cannot ever imagine any one of them being malicious but then I always have in the back of my mind "How well do you really know these people" I only see what they want me to see.

To me, thinking like this about people is so un-natural and I hate it. This is why I think once my youngest starts school I may look to do something else where I don't feel so alone and vunerable

Roseolivia
11-05-2012, 08:52 AM
I'm lucky that i have great parents. Ok they may all not be that involved in what their child does here (diaries, questionairres etc) but they are happy with the service i provide them. I, too try to keep my relationship professional even though some of the children attend the same school as Rose. I've never had a complaint, i've had suggestions on some things i could do extra (food etc) but that is what i ask for when giving out questionnaires.
Even when i terminated a contract due to behaviour i kept the childs sibling on and the mother never complained, ok the relationship was different but when the other child left i got a huge bouqet of flowers and a thank you note:)
Fingers crossed i'll never get parents like this.

miffy
11-05-2012, 10:16 AM
We work alone (mostly) so we are very vulnerable and, if a complaint is made, Ofsted are duty bound to investigate and the onus is on us to prove our innocence not the other way round.

Parents are far more clued up about how to complain and their "rights" generally and they know we are vulnerable.

But Ofsted also know that some complaints are malicious and they are quick to spot circumstances surrounding when a complaint has been made such as a contract ending and parent wishing to get out of paying the notice.

All we can do is use our paperwork and systems to protect ourselves.

Miffy xx

Heaven Scent
11-05-2012, 10:38 AM
I'm lucky that i have great parents. Ok they may all not be that involved in what their child does here (diaries, questionairres etc) but they are happy with the service i provide them. I, too try to keep my relationship professional even though some of the children attend the same school as Rose. I've never had a complaint, i've had suggestions on some things i could do extra (food etc) but that is what i ask for when giving out questionnaires.
Even when i terminated a contract due to behaviour i kept the childs sibling on and the mother never complained, ok the relationship was different but when the other child left i got a huge bouqet of flowers and a thank you note:)
Fingers crossed i'll never get parents like this.

I had great parents too until one of mine got post natal depression and went into denial about it and although she didn't report me to Ofsted she did cause trouble for me with her family support workers manager because I dared to suggest that she may need a bit more support again - she had two babies very close together and had dreadful post natal depression with the first and was still on treatment for it during her pregnancy on the second and was determined that she didn't want to go though it again so went into denial - she later realised that she was in denial and apologised to me for all the trouble she caused. I still speak to her and the children when I bump into them around town but I will never mind her children again - that is a risk I won't be prepared to take. I just will have to tell her that I am really sorry but won't have spaces for them but will pass her details to the Network Coordinator who may be able to help with her search for childcare.

I've also had some "very nice" parents come and threaten me because they felt I should return a £30.00 deposit that they had paid 3 years earlier - they weren't entitled to it because they left without notice. I didn't chase them for the fees because I felt I'd never get them so just put it down to experience and then look what they did. My Children I lived a whole week-end hiding both in the house with the curtains closed or out somewhere in terror with them either constantly pounding on my door or ringing both my mobile and house phones and had nobody to call because it was the week-end so had to wait till Monday to contact my network co-ordinator, NCMA & my insurance company. NCMA had no advice, Insurance and network co-ordinator told me to call the police and I sent them off copies of all the documents they signed with anything relating to the deposit highlighted by registered post and they didn't bother me again. The annoying thing is they must have lied to the police about me because when they told me they had been to see these people the officer told me I was not to approach them again either I ensured them I had no intention of it.

Also when I first joined this forum most of the posts were either queries about paperwork (which in fairness they probably still are) Those that were from upset minders asking for help were usually regarding parents dropping off early / collecting late or non payment of fees etc., but in the past year or so there seem to be so many concerning malicious complaints that it does tend to make my blood run cold. I have seen that increase on other forums and facbook groups too. I believe it is a rising trend.

Chimps Childminding
11-05-2012, 10:55 AM
I have to admit I am half expecting a complaint :( Parent left a couple of weeks ago, pay in arrears and not paid as yet! text to ask if I could have money this week and reply came back with issues they had with me that I had no idea about :(

Still no money and tbh I feel like packing it all in and going to work at Tesco :(

ajs
11-05-2012, 10:57 AM
I think Sarah's attitude to always being aware that OFSTED could knock at any time is the right one to have, we are so vunerable, it has happened to me and I knew nothing about it until the inspector came knocking on my door and the complaints were made by people i thought were friends, and worked closely with. All unfounded and in fact I was told to counter the complaints with my own but didnt as wanted it all over with.
We never know who could be watching and in fact have spoken to people who have said oh i saw you with such and such in town. People talk it's their nature and sometimes talk can be taken out of context and damage done

in the words of Hill Street Blues " Be careful out there"

jumpinjen
11-05-2012, 11:24 AM
I think Sarah's attitude to always being aware that OFSTED could knock at any time is the right one to have, we are so vunerable, it has happened to me and I knew nothing about it until the inspector came knocking on my door and the complaints were made by people i thought were friends, and worked closely with. All unfounded and in fact I was told to counter the complaints with my own but didnt as wanted it all over with.
We never know who could be watching and in fact have spoken to people who have said oh i saw you with such and such in town. People talk it's their nature and sometimes talk can be taken out of context and damage done

in the words of Hill Street Blues " Be careful out there"

:laughing::laughing::laughing:

rickysmiths
11-05-2012, 11:41 AM
Well after 18 years of very successful childminding and never so much as a hint of a Complaint I had two last year one in Sept and one in Oct. Both money driven. Both fully backed up by my paperwork because I keep detailed records and make the parents sign everything including my attendance register. Ofsted didn't visit me either they were all dealt with by letter.

It didn't alter the fact that even though I knew I was right it made me feel dreadful and the letters took between 5-6 hours to fully answer. I am lucky writing letters has never bothered me, my father taught me well and it was something I learnt again during my training as a Home Economist. I also have a very supportive dh who is an excellent letter writer and supports me to the hilt.
I would have been very lost without these skills ans support.

I have had a horrible year with parents, one of the complaining one turned up on my doorstep and threatened me and said she was going to stand outside at collection time and tell all my parents what a terrible minder I was :eek: I rang Ofsted straight away, I was shaking and in tears on the phone and those who know me will tell you it takes a lot to get me in that state. Ofsted were fantastic, they took all the details advised me what to do next and reassured me that I had done nothing wrong. I told all my parents what had happened because I didn't want them to be accosted on the street by this woman. they were also extremely supportive and couldn't believe what she had done to me. You see the majority of parents are fab. Anyway this woman did eventually lodge a complaint with Ofsted and it was totally not upheld.

The other complaint was as completely bonkers and not upheld either.

It has made me look at and tighten up my already robust Policies, especially my Fees Policy which is now very tough. 4 weeks fees upfront, I have always been paid in advance but I will now only accept monthly payment or weekly in cash. So if they pay weekly I won't accept vouchers. If they reduce their hours in the first six months they loose that % of their Deposit, if they leave within the first six months they loose all their deposit. If they stay then the Deposit is used for the 4 weeks notice. There are now no exceptions to this and they have to sign to agree to this Policy.

I am also really considering new inquiries as well. I have one at the moment and I could do with the business but it doesn't feel right so I think I will be telling them no.

I think that the majority of parents are really lovely but there is no doubt that there are more really nasty ones out there. We just have to keep very robust records etc so they can't trip us up. If we do this then we can hold our heads up high knowing that we are doing nothing wrong even though a parents trying to infer we might be.