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View Full Version : THIS POST NEEDS YOUR ATTENTION NOW!! - THE FUTURE OF CHILDMINDING IS AT STAKE!!!!!!!



Donkey
27-04-2012, 09:13 PM
a survey is being conducted regarding the future of childminding

about how ofsted register and inspects us, or if a local network should inspect us and ofsted inspect the network


http://communicatoremail.com/In/20443222/0/cVy1adooHbCj4v6ceZJXkfFORpiPlcEu9v_g8NWdGc6/

is the link (hope it works)

*no where in the survey does it say that you have to be an NCMA member
*you do not need to put in a membership

please respond to every question and state strongly agree or disagree

then hopefully NCMA will do something with the answers (I pray!!!)

Donkey
27-04-2012, 09:21 PM
http://www.surveytool.com/s/S7CA07527B


or that one ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

pinky33
27-04-2012, 09:23 PM
Hmmm very interesting......
Filled in :)

ajs
27-04-2012, 09:32 PM
Done it :)

Rubybubbles
27-04-2012, 09:36 PM
completed :(

mumof4
27-04-2012, 09:36 PM
Done. Are ofsted really thinking of doing this?:(:(

tashaleee
27-04-2012, 09:39 PM
Not happy if this is the way forward :panic:

Have completed it :thumbsup:

Donkey
27-04-2012, 09:40 PM
I don't know, but its quite scary that proposals seem to be quite ahead in their planning

wendywu
27-04-2012, 09:40 PM
Done :thumbsup:

amanda1309
27-04-2012, 09:45 PM
Competed :)

Chimps Childminding
27-04-2012, 09:49 PM
Completed!!!

Trpta108
27-04-2012, 09:58 PM
Done. Scary stuff.

kindredspirits
27-04-2012, 10:12 PM
i don't believe it will happen:panic:

rickysmiths
27-04-2012, 10:18 PM
Just done it. :thumbsup:

PerkyEars
27-04-2012, 10:29 PM
Filled in.

I'd be right out of business if all that lot were implemented. :panic:

Donkey
27-04-2012, 11:00 PM
I didn't think NCMA would diversify...

hey ho!!



we need to stand up and be counted now!!!!!

lozzy23
27-04-2012, 11:16 PM
Done it, unbelievable:mad::(

Bridey
28-04-2012, 12:04 AM
:eek:

Done

Playmate
28-04-2012, 05:28 AM
I didn't think NCMA would diversify...

hey ho!!



we need to stand up and be counted now!!!!!

What I can say is NCMA ar working mighty hard on this one at the moment and it is serious! So please take 5 mins to fill it out and share with as many CM's as you know!

onceinabluemoon
28-04-2012, 06:09 AM
Done.

If they make the changes outlines there my business will go down the tubes and everything I have worked for for the past four years will be worthless. I can't believe they are even contemplated it. On the other hand I have thought for a while now that they are trying to squeeze CMs out of the system, perhaps this is the final straw.

Milli147
28-04-2012, 06:45 AM
Done. :panic:can't believe this :(

sharonmanc
28-04-2012, 06:46 AM
all done :thumbsup:

nell57
28-04-2012, 06:49 AM
All done, very scarey stuff:panic::(

Carol M
28-04-2012, 06:51 AM
I have replied.The longer I think about it the stronger my thoughts become. I actually think that the current Ofsted inspection process is not an accurate picture of the quality provided, as only a snapshot. I would prefer to be registered by Ofsted with all the current regulations and EYFS ... BUT.... I would like the Local Authority to take over inspection.
I think the LA know more about childminding than OFSTED and they work alongside childminders and see providers delivering quality care and education on a consistent basis.
I still think Childminding should be regulated and inspected individually, not within a network of settings as again it will not give an accurate picture of the quality and I for one am not happy to be linked with my local childrens centre and nursery where I have witnessed bad practice!
Please don't shoot the messenger:D
Carol xx

AgentTink
28-04-2012, 07:01 AM
:eek::eek::eek::eek: done!

I in no way shape or form want to be given a grading based on a network. Parents will have no faith in that grade as it will not reflect my practise.

jumping j
28-04-2012, 07:02 AM
Done :panic::eek:

From what I've been hearing, and I'm not expert, on courses they can't take the 2 year old funding away from us because there aren't enough nursery places available in september for the children and it's looking that way for a number of years to come, something about a baby boom :laughing:
And this is also true for the 3-4 year old nursery places.
The government have a responsibilty to provide a nursery place for every child, that can be in a private nursery, state nursery or childminder but there have to be enough spaces.

But if this is the future it'll be a scary place :eek:

marnieb
28-04-2012, 07:11 AM
did anyone else tick the 'very negative' button on most things?? :angry:

i can't beleive this is seriously being considered.

miffy
28-04-2012, 08:01 AM
I have done it and forwarded the link onto other childminders.

Why, if this is so far down the line already, have NCMA only just decided to tell their members about it? :rolleyes:

Miffy xx

Donkey
28-04-2012, 08:21 AM
@ Carol

I hear you but what about bias?? LA officials could have favourites, it could see some people either awarded better or weaker grades

What about repercussions for the LA staff, bit hard to track down a random from ofsted but facebook keeps giving me a suggested friend who is a network coi+rdinator :o might be easier to track down someone local

My big worry is loosing funding most of my wages come from the LA

:(

@Miffy I think NCMA got wind of this when Wilmshaw slated CM's in parliament. I am sure that mans one and only purpose was to cut costs

I work damned hard over the past 4 years, I spent more time with my daughter when I was employed. I have built my business up to a level where it is out main source of income

I do not want lumping together with people who scrape satisfactory, I do not want to carry the inadequates.

I certainly do not want inspecting by someone from a childrens centre!!!

Very angry Donkey!!

Please please fill it in, lots of views only a few responses

I hope those viewing are filling it in!!!

mama2three
28-04-2012, 08:37 AM
all done and completely agree with your comments in the previous post Donkey.

miffy
28-04-2012, 08:41 AM
@Miffy I think NCMA got wind of this when Wilmshaw slated CM's in parliament. I am sure that mans one and only purpose was to cut costs



I'm sure it's a cost cutting exercise - we've heard so much about how much it costs to inspect cm's against inspecting nurseries - BUT is NCMA acting too late?

I hadn't heard anything about this until I saw your post but I read "Who Minds?", I go to local and regional meetings, I'm in touch with my DO but not a flippin whisper from anywhere.

All NCMA focus recently seems to have been on the proposals to widen membership and the next round of regional meetings it's discussing the proposed name changes - to me this is more important, but hey, what do I know?

I read somewhere recently there are 56,000 childminders in the country - that's plenty to make our voice heard!

Miffy xx

mama2three
28-04-2012, 08:47 AM
We had a local meeting on Monday with the area senior project manager and the childminding development worker. Changes within LAs Childrens Centres and NCMA were discussed at length - but nothing at all about this. Fully intend to forward it to Do to forward to other minders - as I wouldnt be surprised if shes unaware of it too!

miffy
28-04-2012, 08:53 AM
We had a local meeting on Monday with the area senior project manager and the childminding development worker. Changes within LAs Childrens Centres and NCMA were discussed at length - but nothing at all about this. Fully intend to forward it to Do to forward to other minders - as I wouldnt be surprised if shes unaware of it too!

I am seeing my DO on Monday so will be mentioning this too.

I missed the Monday meeting but got feedback from others who were there and this was not mentioned.

Miffy xx

snufflepuff
28-04-2012, 08:53 AM
All done...deary me!

mama2three
28-04-2012, 08:58 AM
I am seeing my DO on Monday so will be mentioning this too.

I missed the Monday meeting but got feedback from others who were there and this was not mentioned.

Miffy xx

Ive put a link to the survey on the main conversation board for ncma local and emailed my DO ( dont think we have the same one Miffy). I dont know whether to be more worried that the team are unaware of it , or that they have decided to keep it from us! They were happy to admit that they chose not to tell members that the main reason for 'diversifying' was financial incase we all jumped ship a la Northern Rock !

Carol M
28-04-2012, 09:00 AM
[QUOTE=Donkey;1091685]@ Carol

I hear you but what about bias?? LA officials could have favourites, it could see some people either awarded better or weaker grades

What about repercussions for the LA staff, bit hard to track down a random from ofsted but facebook keeps giving me a suggested friend who is a network coi+rdinator :o might be easier to track down someone local

My big worry is loosing funding most of my wages come from the LA

:(

I suppose I was expecting professional people from LA to make informed judgements and professional childminders to take it on board:eek:
I know funding for this idea would be an issue but we already have a fair quality control system in place in worcestershire( all be it a new system, designed with input from us) but only for accredited childminders.
Carol x

miffy
28-04-2012, 09:05 AM
Ive put a link to the survey on the main conversation board for ncma local and emailed my DO ( dont think we have the same one Miffy). I dont know whether to be more worried that the team are unaware of it , or that they have decided to keep it from us! They were happy to admit that they chose not to tell members that the main reason for 'diversifying' was financial incase we all jumped ship a la Northern Rock !

Good idea about NCMA local.

Something tells me that we have not been told rather than they are not aware!

Miffy xx

HELEN10
28-04-2012, 09:09 AM
Completed.

Kiddleywinks
28-04-2012, 09:29 AM
Filled and forwarded x

ORKSIE
28-04-2012, 09:31 AM
Done.

Not happy at all

My parents and their children will suffer and so will my business.

I hope this all gets thrown out. Scarey:(

x

LittleLegsCM
28-04-2012, 09:33 AM
completed!

are they completely off their rocker or what?!

Do they not realise that by screwing with the system on such a large scale could potentially put the unemployment numbers for the country back up?!

I'm starting to become very worried! I was made redundant back in October '09 from a fairly well paid job. Spent the last 2.5years fighting to keep our home, having and bringing up our son etc but have finally started earning enough for us not to worry about what bills get paid each month! So to possibly lose a minimum of 2 of my mindees because they could no longer pay me with vouchers & the like, would completely mess up my whole business & family! :angry:

gail241
28-04-2012, 09:36 AM
Done it!!! Just another system change!!:angry:

Toothfairy
28-04-2012, 09:47 AM
Filled in and sent to all my CM friends :(

Mouse
28-04-2012, 09:57 AM
@ Carol

I hear you but what about bias?? LA officials could have favourites, it could see some people either awarded better or weaker grades


But Ofsted insepctors are hardly fair now, are they? What about the ones who openly say they won't give outstanding to new minders - how much more biased could they get?
In my opinion it was so much better when we were inspected by local people. They knew us, saw us more often than once every three years and had a much better idea of how we really worked. It would have been impossible to pull the wool over their eyes at an inspection like so many people do now adays.
Perhaps we were just lucky in that we had a very good local team, but I'm convinced the standard of childminding was much higher when they had a grip on what was happening.

mama2three
28-04-2012, 10:35 AM
But Ofsted insepctors are hardly fair now, are they? What about the ones who openly say they won't give outstanding to new minders - how much more biased could they get?
In my opinion it was so much better when we were inspected by local people. They knew us, saw us more often than once every three years and had a much better idea of how we really worked. It would have been impossible to pull the wool over their eyes at an inspection like so many people do now adays.
Perhaps we were just lucky in that we had a very good local team, but I'm convinced the standard of childminding was much higher when they had a grip on what was happening.

Im easily confused at the best of times - BUT if local areas are doing the inspections ; and childminders do not get individual grades but 'area grades' - then they are in effect inspecting themselves!

Carol M
28-04-2012, 10:37 AM
But Ofsted insepctors are hardly fair now, are they? What about the ones who openly say they won't give outstanding to new minders - how much more biased could they get?
In my opinion it was so much better when we were inspected by local people. They knew us, saw us more often than once every three years and had a much better idea of how we really worked. It would have been impossible to pull the wool over their eyes at an inspection like so many people do now adays.
Perhaps we were just lucky in that we had a very good local team, but I'm convinced the standard of childminding was much higher when they had a grip on what was happening.
My sentiments exactly Mouse :thumbsup:
Carol xx

Carol M
28-04-2012, 10:39 AM
Im easily confused at the best of times - BUT if local areas are doing the inspections ; and childminders do not get individual grades but 'area grades' - then they are in effect inspecting themselves!

No, we still want individual inspections and grades, none of this linking with other settings as a network for one overall grade.
Carol xx

TooEarlyForGin?
28-04-2012, 10:59 AM
completed!

are they completely off their rocker or what?!

Do they not realise that by screwing with the system on such a large scale could potentially put the unemployment numbers for the country back up?!

:

I agree, when we are all out of work and the parents we support can't work due to lack of local childcare (I am in a very rural area with very little childcare, the nearest nursery is 7 miles away) they will be paying even more out on benefits to save a few pounds now.

What a stupid backward step. :(

Mouse
28-04-2012, 11:09 AM
Im easily confused at the best of times - BUT if local areas are doing the inspections ; and childminders do not get individual grades but 'area grades' - then they are in effect inspecting themselves!

Yes, that's what the proposal sounds like - utter rubbish! I wouldn't want my outstanding grade upping the overall grade for some of the awful cms, nor would I want them pulling down the overall grade!

What I was saying was I wouldn't be against being inspected on a local level, but I would still want an individual grade to reflect MY practice, not an overall grade to reflect cms in general. I don't see any value in that at all :panic:

migimoo
28-04-2012, 12:31 PM
All filled in-this is the first i've heard of this....i worked SO hard to get my good grading on my first inspection and ofsted said i should have no probs getting outstanding next time-have been high as a kite since but suddenly crashed to earth-wot's the point?!

Bananabrain
28-04-2012, 12:48 PM
my biggest problem with this is as others have said 'carrying weaker childminders'
So I work my ...... off to do the best job I can, others do the bare minimum, but it doesn't matter because we as a 'network' all get the same grade.
Doesn't make sense to me. Have I missed something?

breezy
28-04-2012, 02:11 PM
done!
just dont get how they can group us all under one grade, good or bad we're all totally unique individual settings. I dont want to be judged as a group :(

Hayley102
28-04-2012, 02:19 PM
Done mine!

loocyloo
28-04-2012, 02:35 PM
Yes, that's what the proposal sounds like - utter rubbish! I wouldn't want my outstanding grade upping the overall grade for some of the awful cms, nor would I want them pulling down the overall grade!

What I was saying was I wouldn't be against being inspected on a local level, but I would still want an individual grade to reflect MY practice, not an overall grade to reflect cms in general. I don't see any value in that at all :panic:

exactly my thoughts :(

no one else works like i do from MY home, and i don't work like anyone else in THEIR home! how on earth can we be inspected as a 'group'?

have forwarded this to everyone!

Helcatt
28-04-2012, 03:23 PM
my biggest problem with this is as others have said 'carrying weaker childminders'
So I work my ...... off to do the best job I can, others do the bare minimum, but it doesn't matter because we as a 'network' all get the same grade.
Doesn't make sense to me. Have I missed something?

This is my issue too! We've worked easily hard since or last inspection, making lots of improvements and don't want people who do the bare minimum to drag us down, or us drag their grade up.

I don't mind the idea of being inspected by the local authority bods, I'm on the network and get that to a lesser degree as it is. Though I can see lazy jealous childminders sighting favouritism

What is the expected time scale if the changes come in to force? I world loose 4 clients if I couldn't accept vouchers, and those parents all made a choice to use a cm, not a nursery, for a reason and if they can't use vouchers with us, their choice is also being removed

Hx

The Juggler
28-04-2012, 03:24 PM
thank you Donkey. I am registered with ofsted, they have my e-mail WHY are they not sending these links to us.

i have done it now.

I like the idea of the network in principle as long as THEY then did inspections which gave us individual gradings but not the idea of not having an individual grade :panic:

maisiemog
28-04-2012, 03:33 PM
Just filled it in!

Ripeberry
28-04-2012, 03:40 PM
Done mine. They are just trying to cut costs. But at what cost to our businesses and the children themselves :(

Lady Haha
28-04-2012, 03:46 PM
My biggest worry is that parents claiming tax credits won't be able to use me :(

Out of 8 parents I have, I think only one doesn't claim, so I am terrified now.

I really really dont like the idea of being part of a local agency type set up, but if it meant that by being registered with this 'agency' instead of Ofsted, parents could still claim tax credits, I would much prefer that to not being regulated by anyone!

I love my job and the thought of having to go 'out' to work again fill me with absolute terror. Think I might cry :(

sarah707
28-04-2012, 03:54 PM
I have filled it in and I will ask dp to do it later.

It is all very worrying :(

Thank you for posting this Donkey x

Jiorjiina
28-04-2012, 03:55 PM
Er, I haven't had my first inspection yet (been registered for about 9 months, but first mindee only starting in mid may), should I still fill this out?

zippy
28-04-2012, 03:55 PM
I seriously can't believe what I have just read, they must be out of their tiny minds, and where exactly do they expect all these children to go when they can't pay with tax credits and vouchers, all my parents pay by one of these means. Absolute madness.:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry: :angry:

sarah707
28-04-2012, 04:03 PM
Er, I haven't had my first inspection yet (been registered for about 9 months, but first mindee only starting in mid may), should I still fill this out?

Yes absolutely!

Do you want to be inspected as part of a group with others in your local area?

Do you want to lose all the children of families who pay by tax credits?

It is vital we all respond and make our views clear :thumbsup:

Bananabrain
28-04-2012, 04:22 PM
So, if it's the case then that parents that pay using tax credits won't be able to do so any more, surely that means that alot of parents on low incomes won't be able to access childcare?
Surely that amounts to discrimination?
Am I being thick, or is that really what is proposed?
That effectively means that low paid workers will be in a worse position and that the knock on effect of that is the economy/state of the country will be worse than ever.

lauraj
28-04-2012, 04:28 PM
just filled in

Mouse
28-04-2012, 04:33 PM
So, if it's the case then that parents that pay using tax credits won't be able to do so any more, surely that means that alot of parents on low incomes won't be able to access childcare?
Surely that amounts to discrimination?
Am I being thick, or is that really what is proposed?That effectively means that low paid workers will be in a worse position and that the knock on effect of that is the economy/state of the country will be worse than ever.

I think it's a case of if Ofsted are no longer regulating childminders, then possibly parents wouldn't be able to claim tax credits to pay us.

I have to be honest, I don't believe it will ever come to that. There are too many parents claiming tax credits to pay childminders who would be up in arms if they could no longer claim.

I'm sure parents could claim tax credits before Ofsted came into force and I'm sure they'd still be able to do it if we weren't regulated by Ofsted, but by a designated body.

crazyXstitcher
28-04-2012, 05:23 PM
Done.

Crazy ideas. Dh wanted to know why my I was looking at the computer with :eek: face.

Donkey
28-04-2012, 05:34 PM
@ Carol and Mouse


if ofsted inspect nurseries and cc's and we get inspected by the LA then I think we would go backwards in terms of professionality

I know Ofsted inspectors can be biased, and I am sure there are loads of fair network co-ordinators

but how can we all be equal early years settings unless we all have the same regulatory body and inspected by that body...

having a conversation and saying yes we do this that and the other, but then you get 'oh but you don't have ofsted so can't possibly be of equal standing to us'


:(

I am not disagreeing with you ladies and I can see your points and are very valid. but I think all early years settings needs to be treated the same and inspected the same

Jiorjiina
28-04-2012, 06:04 PM
All done.

All (both) of my mindees parents pay using vouchers. I wouldn't have any work at all if they couldn't use them with me!

Zoomie
28-04-2012, 06:05 PM
Done, and it took me less than 5 minutes

loocyloo
28-04-2012, 06:07 PM
@ Carol and Mouse


if ofsted inspect nurseries and cc's and we get inspected by the LA then I think we would go backwards in terms of professionality

I know Ofsted inspectors can be biased, and I am sure there are loads of fair network co-ordinators

but how can we all be equal early years settings unless we all have the same regulatory body and inspected by that body...

having a conversation and saying yes we do this that and the other, but then you get 'oh but you don't have ofsted so can't possibly be of equal standing to us'


:(

I am not disagreeing with you ladies and I can see your points and are very valid. but I think all early years settings needs to be treated the same and inspected the same

i agree.

the other way that just popped into my mind is that we would become 2 tier childminders, with those that offer NEG/2yr old funding to be inspected by ofsted, (therefore those providing the same as a pre-school and nurseries)and those that don't inspected by someone else. i don't think thats how i want it to be, as then what would happen if you offer NEG, but don't have any NEG children when inspected...


(also sort of OT, but ... what about day nurseries, i used to know a chain that had one setting for the 0-before nursery age and then another setting for the nursery!)

Mouse
28-04-2012, 06:09 PM
@ Carol and Mouse


if ofsted inspect nurseries and cc's and we get inspected by the LA then I think we would go backwards in terms of professionality

I know Ofsted inspectors can be biased, and I am sure there are loads of fair network co-ordinators

but how can we all be equal early years settings unless we all have the same regulatory body and inspected by that body...

having a conversation and saying yes we do this that and the other, but then you get 'oh but you don't have ofsted so can't possibly be of equal standing to us'


:(

I am not disagreeing with you ladies and I can see your points and are very valid. but I think all early years settings needs to be treated the same and inspected the same

But it's not a case of "one size fits all". We are home based childcare providers. We are not nurseries, we are not children's centres, we are not pre-schools. Why are some people so desperate to be treated like them? What is so good about them that we want to be the same?
How can we try to convince people we are a better option if we are so in awe that we want to be treated the same?

I would prefer childminders to be different, to be a special case, to have their own rules & regulations. We are a specialised form of childcare, so why lump us in with all other provision? You say how else can we all be equal early years settings, but why would you want to be equal to a nursery? Shouldn't your aspiration be to be BETTER than other childcare options?

I don't believe parents chose us because we are regulated by Ofsted. They chose us because they want home based childcare that is regulated. Whether it is by Ofsted or another body really wouldn't matter to a lot of them. They want to know we are regulated by a reputable body, that we have the right checks before we start and that we are inspected regularly. If a local body could do that, I'd be happy.

I have been in this job for a long time, well before Ofsted even existed and I can honestly say that I doubt any of my parents would have been put off if I'd been regulated by an independent body rather than Ofsted.

mum26
28-04-2012, 06:26 PM
I have filled it in too.

Lems
28-04-2012, 07:23 PM
Completed and annoyed:angry: for all the reasons mentioned beforehand..
Only today I have given up my saturday with my own children to attend a LA course to benefit my working practice not the 'networks'!! While the bare minimum CM's have done as they please with their saturday:angry: Again no WTC for my parents means no wages for me!!!

ChocolateChip
28-04-2012, 09:43 PM
I have filled it in and forwarded it on.
Can't believe what I have read, tbh! :eek:
There's no way i want to be lumped together and graded with a load of people I don't know, and if they think that they will save a few pounds by not registering us then they are very misguided!

I am really shocked that someone has thought up this idiotic drivel :angry:

chez
28-04-2012, 10:12 PM
completed it posted on our areas Childminding Facebook group and send to DO.

Shar
29-04-2012, 07:22 AM
Done it! Looks like we may go back to LA inspections. I have felt for a while that we are being slowly got rid of. There are too many of us and we cost too much to maintain.

Carol M
29-04-2012, 07:34 AM
I am trying to forward a link to my IA and can't seem to do it:blush:
Whichever link I try and add it tells me I've completed this survey. I've tried from NCMA website too.
Can someone help me?
Carol xx

marnieb
29-04-2012, 07:39 AM
But it's not a case of "one size fits all". We are home based childcare providers. We are not nurseries, we are not children's centres, we are not pre-schools. Why are some people so desperate to be treated like them? What is so good about them that we want to be the same?
How can we try to convince people we are a better option if we are so in awe that we want to be treated the same?

I would prefer childminders to be different, to be a special case, to have their own rules & regulations. We are a specialised form of childcare, so why lump us in with all other provision? You say how else can we all be equal early years settings, but why would you want to be equal to a nursery? Shouldn't your aspiration be to be BETTER than other childcare options?I don't believe parents chose us because we are regulated by Ofsted. They chose us because they want home based childcare that is regulated. Whether it is by Ofsted or another body really wouldn't matter to a lot of them. They want to know we are regulated by a reputable body, that we have the right checks before we start and that we are inspected regularly. If a local body could do that, I'd be happy.

I have been in this job for a long time, well before Ofsted even existed and I can honestly say that I doubt any of my parents would have been put off if I'd been regulated by an independent body rather than Ofsted.


:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


Well said, i agree 1000%

Donkey
29-04-2012, 08:17 AM
Mouse I agree that we are specialist and different to nurseries, the learning we offer can not be matched which is why nurseries try to hard to recreate the home environment. I really fully agree with what your saying......


but its how 'other' professionals see us....

if we are treated different, they will see as as not been better or even equal, in their opinion we will be seen as 'babysitters'

heck some of us struggle with being seen as equals right now...

what concerns me is that if we are not ofsted registered that parents will not be able to claim tax credits, employer vouchers and what about fel/nef/nee/neg (whatever your area calls it)

pretty much all of my income comes from one of the above streams and seeing as DH works with me we will be pretty much in deep doo doo if it happens :( :(

kindredspirits
29-04-2012, 10:12 AM
i just don't see how they could consider stopping parents using CM's from paying with vouchers or claiming tax credits - there are not enough nursery places to go round as it is.
IMO I don't care who inspects us its already been outsourced to tribal and prospects anyway - i expect individual inspections and I expect us to still be able to recieve tax credit payments/vouchers etc.

samb
29-04-2012, 10:57 AM
:eek: Woah! Just filled in and shcoked and annoyed about the whole thing especially about not havign heard about any of this until now! I have forwarded to my DO too.

Mouse
29-04-2012, 11:02 AM
Mouse I agree that we are specialist and different to nurseries, the learning we offer can not be matched which is why nurseries try to hard to recreate the home environment. I really fully agree with what your saying......


but its how 'other' professionals see us....
if we are treated different, they will see as as not been better or even equal, in their opinion we will be seen as 'babysitters'

heck some of us struggle with being seen as equals right now...

what concerns me is that if we are not ofsted registered that parents will not be able to claim tax credits, employer vouchers and what about fel/nef/nee/neg (whatever your area calls it)

pretty much all of my income comes from one of the above streams and seeing as DH works with me we will be pretty much in deep doo doo if it happens :( :(


I think you answer your own point there: how do other professionals see us - we struggle to be seen as equals now

Being regulated by Ofsted doesn't do a very good job then does it?

For those of us who remember the introduction of Ofsted regulating childminders I wonder how many of us could hand on heart say it lifted the profile of childminding. Even the introduction of EYFS hasn't really done that, as you point out yourself (heck some of us struggle with being seen as equals right now).

All I am saying is, don't assume an alternative will necessarily be bad for us. As long as it was run properly it could be beneficial - inspections by people who understand childminding, rules & regulations that specifically relate to childminding, not those that are really aimed at nursery settings, but which they try to tweek to fit childminders, training specifically aimed at childminding etc etc. And there's nothing to say parents could only use tax credits if we are registered with Ofsted. There's no reason why rules couldn't allow for parents to claim it if we were registered with a dedicted childminding body.


I'm keeping an open mind on where things might go. I want us to stay registered, regulated, inspected individually and able to accept tax credits, NEF & childcare vouchers, but other than that I'm not desperate to stay under Ofsted's control :thumbsup:

Mouse
29-04-2012, 11:04 AM
i just don't see how they could consider stopping parents using CM's from paying with vouchers or claiming tax credits - there are not enough nursery places to go round as it is.
IMO I don't care who inspects us its already been outsourced to tribal and prospects anyway - i expect individual inspections and I expect us to still be able to recieve tax credit payments/vouchers etc.

I don't even know that the government (or whoever) are considering it. I think it's just panic & assumptions being made. I do think this survery is scaremongering a bit. People are taking the 'what ifs' as fact!

sarah707
29-04-2012, 11:33 AM
I don't even know that the government (or whoever) are considering it. I think it's just panic & assumptions being made. I do think this survery is scaremongering a bit. People are taking the 'what ifs' as fact!

NCMA have been in big meetings with Ofsted after disparaging comments by the Ofsted head guy against childminder registration in the media a few weeks ago.

A number of suggestions were made by Ofsted for changing things - which NCMA are robustly arguing against on our behalf.

The survey is all part of evidence gathering by NCMA so they can argue properly using childminder comments as part of the evidence.

Unfortunately it is not scaremongering - it could really happen and in the not too distant future too.

While I am not an NCMA member I am grateful to them for involving and supporting childminders in this issue :D

Tazmin68
29-04-2012, 12:10 PM
Completed

what a joke. Where I am we have to keep are crbs updated and less than 3 years old to keep drawing 3 yr old funding and we pay for these ourselves. It is the same requirement for any council funding place plus have safeguarding training updated every 2 years.

No way do i want LA or CC to inspect me.

AliceK
29-04-2012, 12:27 PM
Have done it :thumbsup:

I want to continue with the EYFS, I want to continue to be inspected and regulated. I spend a lot of time talking to prospective parents about what we as childminders have to do and how we do exactly the same as nurseries and my parents see what I do and comment on how much I do and are shocked but impressed that we as childminders ARE professionals just as much as a nursery is. Admittedly most people have no idea about this and do look at us as glorified babysitters but when I need to have a conversation with a pre-school about a child and I can talk in a professional manner to them about things they realise that I too am a professional. No we are probably not yet see by most as professionals just because we deliver the EYFS but it's still early days and if this is taken away from us already then we stand no hope of ever being seen as equal and it will be a huge backwards step.

xxx

Mouse
29-04-2012, 12:29 PM
NCMA have been in big meetings with Ofsted after disparaging comments by the Ofsted head guy against childminder registration in the media a few weeks ago.

A number of suggestions were made by Ofsted for changing things - which NCMA are robustly arguing against on our behalf.

The survey is all part of evidence gathering by NCMA so they can argue properly using childminder comments as part of the evidence.

Unfortunately it is not scaremongering - it could really happen and in the not too distant future too.

While I am not an NCMA member I am grateful to them for involving and supporting childminders in this issue :D

Yes, I'm aware of what is going on.

I admit scaremongering was probably the wrong word to use. But it is causing people to panic before we know what is actually going to happen. Like you say, NCMA are doing a lot of work to support childminders, so why are people panicking about "if my parents can't claim tax credits, I'll have to give up childminding" or "if my parents can't claim tax credits they'll all have to give up work & unemployment figures are going to soar". I just think people should calm down, fill in the survey & wait until we have some firm news of what, if anything, is going to happen.

The Juggler
29-04-2012, 12:30 PM
Yes absolutely!

Do you want to be inspected as part of a group with others in your local area?

Do you want to lose all the children of families who pay by tax credits?

It is vital we all respond and make our views clear :thumbsup:

that is the scariest thing. so either we just look really bad because of those who are just not up to the job or THEY get made to look good out of the hard work of just a small proportion of minders (or less than half in my area):panic::panic:

appleblossom
29-04-2012, 12:47 PM
I think you answer your own point there: how do other professionals see us - we struggle to be seen as equals now

Being regulated by Ofsted doesn't do a very good job then does it?

For those of us who remember the introduction of Ofsted regulating childminders I wonder how many of us could hand on heart say it lifted the profile of childminding. Even the introduction of EYFS hasn't really done that, as you point out yourself (heck some of us struggle with being seen as equals right now).

All I am saying is, don't assume an alternative will necessarily be bad for us. As long as it was run properly it could be beneficial - inspections by people who understand childminding, rules & regulations that specifically relate to childminding, not those that are really aimed at nursery settings, but which they try to tweek to fit childminders, training specifically aimed at childminding etc etc. And there's nothing to say parents could only use tax credits if we are registered with Ofsted. There's no reason why rules couldn't allow for parents to claim it if we were registered with a dedicted childminding body.


I'm keeping an open mind on where things might go. I want us to stay registered, regulated, inspected individually and able to accept tax credits, NEF & childcare vouchers, but other than that I'm not desperate to stay under Ofsted's control :thumbsup:


Hear Hear!!

I've been CM for 21 years and well remember the LA inspections. Our Under Eights Officers knew all the CM, were there to support us and help as well as inspect. I don't believe being Ofsted registered and inspected has made a difference to the way my practice is regarded by parents. I have always promoted my setting as being different to nurseries rather than equal to. The families I currently provide care for value those differences.

winstonian
29-04-2012, 12:53 PM
Scary - done and posted link on our area facebook page

The Juggler
29-04-2012, 01:11 PM
Hear Hear!!

I've been CM for 21 years and well remember the LA inspections. Our Under Eights Officers knew all the CM, were there to support us and help as well as inspect. I don't believe being Ofsted registered and inspected has made a difference to the way my practice is regarded by parents. I have always promoted my setting as being different to nurseries rather than equal to. The families I currently provide care for value those differences.

I see where you are coming from and i have no objection to be inspected as part of an LA network but having the network inspected by ofsted and that being our network grading - no:panic::panic: that just scares the pants off me as we would receive a grade that encompasses too many wide ranges of practice across the borough. So those who we know don't do the work bring the network grade down or they get to show off that they are part of a great network based on the work of others - so unfair.

I like the EYFS but I still promote my setting as being different from a nursery. One of my little ones goes to a nursery on the day I can't have her. Her mum loves the differences. Her LO doesn't sleep at all at nursery as there are 10 babies being put down together. here she sleeps 1 1/2-2 hours. She loves the stimulation of all the amazing activities at nursery but to have that 5 days a week would be too much - overstimulation.

However, with all the early years teams being laid off who is going to run these networks anyway :panic::panic:

But the biggest concern is those who used to do "nothing" and now have been forced to some kind of child led planning (paperwork aside) and actually think about those kiddies - they still don't interact much with them or play with them but they at least have to show they now follow their interests and are watchign their progress - because they are inspected on them. If this happened and ofsted were out of the picture they will just be able to hide away again - they will go back to doing nothing because they won't have to produce any evidence that they do otherwise - that scares me.:panic:

appleblossom
29-04-2012, 03:13 PM
I 100% agree that we should be graded individually and not as part of a network or other group. I left our local CM network years ago and have no intention of rejoining voluntarily. I also believe all CM should have to show how they promote the learning and development of children in their care, otherwise those carrying out any sort of inspection would have nothing to judge by.

melco
29-04-2012, 03:25 PM
I have done it.

I also agree with other on here.

I have only been registered since February this year so have not had my first inspection but I am working hard to make sure that it is a good result so don't want to feel my hard work has gone to waste, I want to be inspected on what I have done and be able to tell parents my grade!

Ali56
29-04-2012, 06:02 PM
But it's not a case of "one size fits all". We are home based childcare providers. We are not nurseries, we are not children's centres, we are not pre-schools. Why are some people so desperate to be treated like them? What is so good about them that we want to be the same?
How can we try to convince people we are a better option if we are so in awe that we want to be treated the same?

I would prefer childminders to be different, to be a special case, to have their own rules & regulations. We are a specialised form of childcare, so why lump us in with all other provision? You say how else can we all be equal early years settings, but why would you want to be equal to a nursery? Shouldn't your aspiration be to be BETTER than other childcare options?

I don't believe parents chose us because we are regulated by Ofsted. They chose us because they want home based childcare that is regulated. Whether it is by Ofsted or another body really wouldn't matter to a lot of them. They want to know we are regulated by a reputable body, that we have the right checks before we start and that we are inspected regularly. If a local body could do that, I'd be happy.

I have been in this job for a long time, well before Ofsted even existed and I can honestly say that I doubt any of my parents would have been put off if I'd been regulated by an independent body rather than Ofsted.

Me too-But I still want my own quality grade, I don't want to prop up anyone elses grade. Even when SS inspected us we still had our individual reports.

Mickey Mouse Clubhouse
29-04-2012, 06:20 PM
Done as my parents use childcare vouchers and a new parent I have starting in september is also going to use them as well. I would want to keep my grading and not bunched altogether.

lollipop kid
29-04-2012, 08:51 PM
Glad the NCMA are not supporting this. I take pride in being a childminder - if they implement this, where's the incentive for us to "strive for continuous improvement"? Grrrr.

mindingmummy08
03-05-2012, 08:54 AM
Completed :mad:

silvermist
03-05-2012, 10:56 AM
Done! :(:(

NicoleW
03-05-2012, 12:16 PM
Just done this.

I haven't been a Childminder for long, but grew up in a house where my step-mum was a Childminder so to me it's always been a professional outlook (i.e. a business not a babysitting service)

The thing that worries me is that: Would parents pay for childcare costs of a childminder that they can't claim from CTC or vouchers when they could pay a higher rate cost at a nursery but claim some money back? My daughter has been on the waiting list for a nursery that feeds into a preschool that feeds into the school. She's been on this list since she was 1, they get the 2 year old funding so take children from 2 years onwards and she is still not even near the top of the list. I spoke to the manager yesterday and she was saying that half of their children go to preschool in September yet they are an influx of children this year so by they will still be full to the brim come September.

What about the knock on effect to parents, if they can't afford private childcare to which they have no entitlement to, would they then give up their job? Would they stay at home? Would the unemployment rise dramatically? Means it'll drain the government out of yet more money which they do not have.

I don't want to be thought of as a babysitting service, will we be preceived as this if we are deregulated? It resembles a nannying agency in my mind, not that I'm saying nanny's aren't professionals. It's going to be a case of "Ooo this childmidner is with this agency so she must be good" Well in reality just grading the agency won't motivate childminders into improving their practice? Would it even encourage self reflecting?

Winnie
03-05-2012, 12:29 PM
NCMA have been in big meetings with Ofsted after disparaging comments by the Ofsted head guy against childminder registration in the media a few weeks ago.

A number of suggestions were made by Ofsted for changing things - which NCMA are robustly arguing against on our behalf.

The survey is all part of evidence gathering by NCMA so they can argue properly using childminder comments as part of the evidence.

Unfortunately it is not scaremongering - it could really happen and in the not too distant future too.

While I am not an NCMA member I am grateful to them for involving and supporting childminders in this issue :D

How soon is 'in the not too distant future'? :eek: scary thought...

toddlersup
03-05-2012, 07:24 PM
Submitted mine. x

maluvsya89
03-05-2012, 08:41 PM
its late and im confused at what is actually happening and whats not going to happen and blah blah but i cant leave it i need to know please some one explain thank you sorry x

keeks
04-05-2012, 06:57 AM
Thank you Donkey, done it.

I didn't realise this might be on the cards.

I don't think anyone on my network knows about this, strangely.

xx

sarah707
04-05-2012, 08:34 AM
I have started a new thread about writing a letter to lobby MPs.

Please add your comments - every voice counts!

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=101340

Thank you :D

Heaven Scent
04-05-2012, 08:36 AM
I
I have replied.The longer I think about it the stronger my thoughts become. I actually think that the current Ofsted inspection process is not an accurate picture of the quality provided, as only a snapshot. I would prefer to be registered by Ofsted with all the current regulations and EYFS ... BUT.... I would like the Local Authority to take over inspection.
I think the LA know more about childminding than OFSTED and they work alongside childminders and see providers delivering quality care and education on a consistent basis.
I still think Childminding should be regulated and inspected individually, not within a network of settings as again it will not give an accurate picture of the quality and I for one am not happy to be linked with my local childrens centre and nursery where I have witnessed bad practice!
Please don't shoot the messenger:D
Carol xx

That would be quite a good idea BUT I don't believe that it should be the network co-ordinators who work directly with childminders who would do inspections - It should be someone who is in no way connected - I do feel though we should be inspected by people who understand the sector and not by ex-primary school teachers or the ex-primary school teachers (which is what most inspectors tend to be) should have to do a set number of CPD hours working in the sector to become professionally competent so that they are qualified to inspect in the area. - they should have to do a set number of hours observing in childminders homes or they should employ more ex minders to carry out childminder inspections.

I also don't agree with the short version of the inspection report for childminders - we pull out all the stops and do the same work as everyone else so why cant we have equal status in the report stakes - I think the report is too short as it stands and I feel it rarely matches the grade awarded.

jackie 7
20-05-2012, 11:12 AM
I was on a first aid course and none of the childminders knew about this, we have to tell every childminder we know. I am worried we would loose the childcare vouchers and parents would go to nurseries.

lynneylou
20-05-2012, 02:42 PM
completed :)

lubanana
23-05-2012, 06:19 PM
completed and will send to others to reply.

scoobydoo1
23-05-2012, 10:00 PM
I can't do this yet as not registered, pre-reg visit on 15 June

newkid
28-05-2012, 08:25 PM
Completed it, will send to others.

pinkrabbit
28-05-2012, 08:45 PM
completed.

stardust
28-05-2012, 10:19 PM
Done xx
What we could have done with was a comment box and the following questions
on a scale of 1-5 (one being little/none and five being lots/very)

1) do you feel ofsted need's a new cheif exicutive
2) do you feel Sir Micheal knows and understands OFSTED regestration and inspections

Feel free to add questions to lighten the mood!

oakie dokie
11-06-2012, 06:36 PM
completed!

emimihkos
12-06-2012, 09:47 AM
Just done it :(

Vikki27
12-06-2012, 12:47 PM
All done, This is very worrying :panic: Does anyone know if there is a date in which the decision will be made?

It all seems crazy to me!!

gabby77
12-06-2012, 07:50 PM
so the true cost of regulation is revealed as £400 per childminder per year on average, so if we want the ofsted 'badge of quality' should CM's pay for it or should there should be a proper cost recovery system of sorts?

the health and safety executive are trialling a cost recovery system where those that fail to comply (a material breach of law, not just a technical/administrative breach) are charged the full cost of any intervention -and i'm not talking about a fine on prosecution this is about billing by the hour (around 166 pounds an hour) for the inspection and time to write a letter or serve a statutory notice.

i'm not sure whats right but among CM's there seems to be a lot of regulatory creep/exceeding legal requirements to please Ofsted inspector where the outcome is not always better quality childcare

is this mobilisation of CM's against deregulation just self interest/protectionism?

sarah707
12-06-2012, 08:36 PM
so the true cost of regulation is revealed as £400 per childminder per year on average, so if we want the ofsted 'badge of quality' should CM's pay for it or should there should be a proper cost recovery system of sorts?

the health and safety executive are trialling a cost recovery system where those that fail to comply (a material breach of law, not just a technical/administrative breach) are charged the full cost of any intervention -and i'm not talking about a fine on prosecution this is about billing by the hour (around 166 pounds an hour) for the inspection and time to write a letter or serve a statutory notice.

i'm not sure whats right but among CM's there seems to be a lot of regulatory creep/exceeding legal requirements to please Ofsted inspector where the outcome is not always better quality childcare

is this mobilisation of CM's against deregulation just self interest/protectionism?

Welcome to the forum Gabby.

I am struggling a bit with what you are suggesting - are you talking about childminders who fail to reach the required standards paying more money than others for re-inspection?

We tend to treat childminders who are struggling with requirements as people in need of support, help, extra training etc rather than adding punitive financial costs to their already possibly quite fragile businesses...

Yes of course there will always be childminders who work harder than others and go the extra mile. It is interesting that you see it as pleasing Ofsted... I see it in my business as wanting to promote the best possible outcomes for every child and parent who attends my provision.

Are you a working childminder Gabby? Have you had problems with your Ofsted inspections? You sound disillusioned.

Is there anything we can do to support you? Please feel free to start a thread and chat about any issues you might have.

I hope you are enjoying the forum! :D

lauraandsteviex
12-06-2012, 08:58 PM
:thumbsup:

gabby77
12-06-2012, 11:36 PM
Welcome to the forum Gabby.

I am struggling a bit with what you are suggesting - are you talking about childminders who fail to reach the required standards paying more money than others for re-inspection?

We tend to treat childminders who are struggling with requirements as people in need of support, help, extra training etc rather than adding punitive financial costs to their already possibly quite fragile businesses...

Yes of course there will always be childminders who work harder than others and go the extra mile. It is interesting that you see it as pleasing Ofsted... I see it in my business as wanting to promote the best possible outcomes for every child and parent who attends my provision.

Are you a working childminder Gabby? Have you had problems with your Ofsted inspections? You sound disillusioned.

Is there anything we can do to support you? Please feel free to start a thread and chat about any issues you might have.

I hope you are enjoying the forum! :D


Hi, am new working CM, part of what I was surprised that we pay only 6-7% of the true cost of regulation in registration costs, which got me thinking is this right?

one approach, though not one i advocate, that the government have taken recently is as below in respect of safety law:

'The Government believes that it is reasonable that businesses that are found to be in serious breach of the law – rather than the taxpayer - should bear the related costs incurred by the regulator in helping them put things right. A cost recovery principle will provide a deterrent to those who would otherwise fail to meet their obligations and a level playing field for those who do.'

and increasingly the current government (and its quangos) are moving to some sort of full cost recovery - else the department/quango does not exist.

anyway probably me off on a tangent -can be easily distracted:blush: