PDA

View Full Version : Ofsted response to query regards 3.40



blue bear
27-04-2012, 05:29 PM
My questions were;
Dear sirs,
Please could you clarify 3.40 of the revised eyfs.

I understand we no longer need to apply for variations for sibling children of current mindees along as we have risk assessed and can show competence to parent/carers and inspectors. And we do not exceed six children under eight years old.
Is this accurate?

Does this also apply for continuation of care, so for children we already care for on three days needs a fourth, we no longer need to apply for a variation to accommodate this families request?

I currently care for a child holidays only as she attends preschool in the term time (9-3) mum is having a baby and would like the baby to come to me 9-3 all year round, so both children in the holidays. If the above is correct I am assuming I can reassure mum I can accommodate baby?

3.40 also states where children aged four or five only attend the childminding setting before/after normal school day and /or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as there other young children. But in all circumstances the total number of children under eight being cared for must not exceed six.
Are these children still counted as over five if I am caring for four (or five) young children to accommodate a continuation of care or sibling care request?


The response;

Dear Ms Xxxx,

Further to your query about point 3.40 of the revised EYFS, the revised Framework does not come into operation until September 2012. Therefore at present you will need to comply with the requirements of the EYFS as it stands.

With reference to continuity of care in 3.40 in the revised Framework, this refers to caring for more than one under one, in order to accommodate the sibling of a child already in attendance. It odes not refer to exceeding three children in the Early Years age range. Please refer back to point 3.39.

At present if your conditions of registration include being able to care for children aged 4-5 years in full time education as being in the older age range for numbers, then any children in this age range in full-time education can be counted as an older child. Point 3.40 of the revised Framework says that this will also be so from September.

The EYFS is not Ofsted's document. It is produced by the Department for Education and you may wish to check your understanding with colleagues there. We will also follow it up on your behalf and produce any additional guidance when we update our current factsheet on numbers and ages of children that childminders may have.

Yours sincerely
Val Whitmore
Early Years Quality Manager
Quality Assurance National Team


Clear as mud!

AliceK
27-04-2012, 05:34 PM
My questions were;
Dear sirs,
Please could you clarify 3.40 of the revised eyfs.

I understand we no longer need to apply for variations for sibling children of current mindees along as we have risk assessed and can show competence to parent/carers and inspectors. And we do not exceed six children under eight years old.
Is this accurate?

Does this also apply for continuation of care, so for children we already care for on three days needs a fourth, we no longer need to apply for a variation to accommodate this families request?

I currently care for a child holidays only as she attends preschool in the term time (9-3) mum is having a baby and would like the baby to come to me 9-3 all year round, so both children in the holidays. If the above is correct I am assuming I can reassure mum I can accommodate baby?

3.40 also states where children aged four or five only attend the childminding setting before/after normal school day and /or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as there other young children. But in all circumstances the total number of children under eight being cared for must not exceed six.
Are these children still counted as over five if I am caring for four (or five) young children to accommodate a continuation of care or sibling care request?


The response;

Dear Ms Xxxx,

Further to your query about point 3.40 of the revised EYFS, the revised Framework does not come into operation until September 2012. Therefore at present you will need to comply with the requirements of the EYFS as it stands.

With reference to continuity of care in 3.40 in the revised Framework, this refers to caring for more than one under one, in order to accommodate the sibling of a child already in attendance. It odes not refer to exceeding three children in the Early Years age range. Please refer back to point 3.39.

At present if your conditions of registration include being able to care for children aged 4-5 years in full time education as being in the older age range for numbers, then any children in this age range in full-time education can be counted as an older child. Point 3.40 of the revised Framework says that this will also be so from September.

The EYFS is not Ofsted's document. It is produced by the Department for Education and you may wish to check your understanding with colleagues there. We will also follow it up on your behalf and produce any additional guidance when we update our current factsheet on numbers and ages of children that childminders may have.

Yours sincerely
Val Whitmore
Early Years Quality Manager
Quality Assurance National Team


Clear as mud!

So basically for either a twin that wasn't in your care with her sibling and suddenly is. OR, mum has another baby immediately after having her other one :eek: so suddenly has siblings both under one. How can you possibly have 2 under ones siblings and provide continuity of care in any other circumstance.
I'm very confused. Basically from what I understand we will still need to apply for variations then????
Ofsted are as helpful as aways :rolleyes:

xxxx

onceinabluemoon
27-04-2012, 05:54 PM
So basically for either a twin that wasn't in your care with her sibling and suddenly is. OR, mum has another baby immediately after having her other one :eek: so suddenly has siblings both under one. How can you possibly have 2 under ones siblings and provide continuity of care in any other circumstance.
I'm very confused. Basically from what I understand we will still need to apply for variations then????
Ofsted are as helpful as aways :rolleyes:

xxxx

As I read it it says that if (for example) you have a baby of 6 months and a toddler of 3 years and the 3 year olds mum has a baby you can have the second baby as long as you can satisfy the conditions given in the new eyes without having to ask for a variation.

AliceK
27-04-2012, 06:01 PM
As I read it it says that if (for example) you have a baby of 6 months and a toddler of 3 years and the 3 year olds mum has a baby you can have the second baby as long as you can satisfy the conditions given in the new eyes without having to ask for a variation.

aaahhh I see. Now that makes more sense then. Thank you :thumbsup:
I wonder if we can have 5 EYFS children which includes 2 under 1's in that case. That's the situation with siblings I'm likely to be in next summer.

xxx

blue bear
27-04-2012, 06:17 PM
I wonder if we can have 5 EYFS children which includes 2 under 1's in that case. That's the situation with siblings I'm likely to be in next summer.

xxx

The way I read this response we will not be able to exceed 3 under five as per 3.39 unless child in full time education

AliceK
27-04-2012, 06:27 PM
The way I read this response we will not be able to exceed 3 under five as per 3.39 unless child in full time education

Yes that's how I see it too so I'll have to hope for 2 x variations or else tell one of my mums I can't have the new baby :(

Oh well, I'll worry about it nearer the time.

xxx

mindingmummy
27-04-2012, 08:21 PM
I spoke to Ofsted about this earlier, and they suggest that we will all be getting a new certificate in September - once size fits all type. (rather than listing all the different variations we may have in place) We wont need to request variations anymore and will be responsible for determining from the EYFS whether it is appropriate to have the children.

She was a little unsure though and said that there would be more guidance closer to the time as they havent been fully brought up to speed yet!

loocyloo
27-04-2012, 08:35 PM
I spoke to Ofsted about this earlier, and they suggest that we will all be getting a new certificate in September - once size fits all type. (rather than listing all the different variations we may have in place) We wont need to request variations anymore and will be responsible for determining from the EYFS whether it is appropriate to have the children.

She was a little unsure though and said that there would be more guidance closer to the time as they havent been fully brought up to speed yet!

well thats clear as mud then and totally open to misuse! typical ofsted!

i'm going to need a variation for continuity of care as i know some childrens days/hours are going to be changing in september, plus i have a new starter already booked in! ( and i think the hours are all going to overlap now! )

miffy
28-04-2012, 08:50 AM
well thats clear as mud then and totally open to misuse! typical ofsted!

i'm going to need a variation for continuity of care as i know some childrens days/hours are going to be changing in september, plus i have a new starter already booked in! ( and i think the hours are all going to overlap now! )

It's variations for continuity of care that appear to have gone altogether under new EYFS.

There's another thread about it here

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=100926

Notice when push comes to shove Ofsted are keen to point otu that the EYFS is DfE's document not theirs and that we should get advice from our LA's not them! :rolleyes:

Miffy xx

blue bear
28-04-2012, 10:05 AM
Notice when push comes to shove Ofsted are keen to point otu that the EYFS is DfE's document not theirs and that we should get advice from our LA's not them! :rolleyes:

Miffy xx

That is interesting, this is what my do e mailed me;


Dear Xxx
I have been speaking to colleagues re the new EYFS and your queries/questions from the email you sent. There are no major changes which you need to worry about. 3.40 that refers to sibling babies is the same as it is now. When they say sibling babies they mean two young children from the same family. Variations in place now will not change.
*
The only changes we have picked up on so far is that all childminders will probably need to attend a one day safeguarding course-but this is still to be confirmed and the complaints policy no longer needs to be written. However, I am reliably informed that most childminders don’t have written complaints anyway.
*
Any major changes affecting childminders and settings will be made known to myself and my colleagues and addressed during the EYFS training sessions which will be available soon.
*
Kind Regards


So now I don't know what to think!

I really don't think the people with the power to change things realise how far in advance childminders need to plan to accommodate parents needs, not being able to confirm places fir September just seems so unprofessional to me.

sarah707
28-04-2012, 12:40 PM
the complaints policy no longer needs to be written. However, I am reliably informed that most childminders don’t have written complaints anyway.
*


I am not sure who wrote this fifi... but it is a statutory requirement of the Childcare Register to have a written complaints policy and procedure - see the Ofsted's inspectors handbook for clarification.

:D

blue bear
28-04-2012, 12:52 PM
I am not sure who wrote this fifi... but it is a statutory requirement of the Childcare Register to have a written complaints policy and procedure - see the Ofsted's inspectors handbook for clarification.

:D

I had already mentioned that it is a requirement for the childcare register in my original e-mail to her (childcare development worker for lea) but don't really think she understands, it could be I've not worded it very well though.

Mouse
28-04-2012, 01:09 PM
I had already mentioned that it is a requirement for the childcare register in my original e-mail to her (childcare development worker for lea) but don't really think she understands it to be honest.

It's worrying isn't it when the people supposedly advising us don't understand the basics :panic: