No Variation needed from September??

[Pocketchick]

Just called Ofsted to apply for a variation from September and was told there is no need because when the new framework comes in our certificates will no longer have numbers. We will basically have to decide ourselves if we wish to take on extras.....I am all for being given more responsibility but I am worried this will pave the way for greedy people who do not have the children's best interest in mind?

I asked him to double check as I didn't believe him.

[CH1957]

I was told by my DO that we still need to stay within the 6 under 8 years numbers (3 under and 3 over) and if we want to go over that still need to apply for a variation? Sure someone will come along that knows more!

[Mouse]

I don't think anyone knows the answers yet.

We'll still have to stick within the framework rules, so no more than 6 under 8 etc, but no one seems to know if we will still have to apply to Ofsted to increase the EY numbers, or if we can do it ourselves as long as we feel we satisfy the conditions (continuity of care or siblings).

Nowhere does it give the impression that we can just take on as many children as we like. It is quite clear what the rules are and that we have to stick to them. Just how we go about it is still shrouded in mystery!

[Pocketchick]

From what I gather from reading the framework is that the main numbers still apply, the 6 under 8 with 3 under 3 etc....but then you can grant your own variations to accommodate existing children or siblings? I wish they would make it clearer. I have a sibling wanting to start end of August, Ofsted have told me not to do a variation because it will be refused due to the changes. Gah!

[Mouse]

From what I gather from reading the framework is that the main numbers still apply, the 6 under 8 with 3 under 3 etc....but then you can grant your own variations to accommodate existing children or siblings? I wish they would make it clearer. I have a sibling wanting to start end of August, Ofsted have told me not to do a variation because it will be refused due to the changes. Gah!

That's how I read it. You will have to know what the maximum numbers are and stick to them, even if it doesn't actually say them on your certificate.

Then, if you want to take on a sibling that would put you up to 4 EYFS children, you can do it as long as you don't go over your maximum number of 6 children under 8.

It will work well for me because I'm forever applying for variations for siblings or continuity of care. I'm hoping I wouldn't have to do it any more. BUT, a lot of childminders at our group are saying they'll take on up to 6 EYFS children & just say it was for continuity if questioned :panic: They know they wouldn't be able to take on any school children (unless they were over 8), but if they don't want to do school runs that doesn't matter.

[Pocketchick]

BUT, a lot of childminders at our group are saying they'll take on up to 6 EYFS children & just say it was for continuity if questioned

That's exactly what my worry would be with this.....I know a few who would do this too!

[kindredspirits]

will this work the same for under 1's? only i am going to be starting an under 1, plus i have my own baby (DH is my assistant) and i was going to apply for a variation so i can take both babies to toddlers etc as my DS is home schooled and can't go to toddler groups now he is 5. be handy if i won't need to bother with that and can still do it!

[AliceK]

Are they going to be issuing new certificates to us all then? My DD starts FT school in Sept so I will need to get my certificate changed to take her out of my EYFS numbers.

xxx

[butterfly]

This is interesting as I'm just thinking about whether to apply for a variation for a child whom i currently have to cover before and after playgroup hours so that i could take on another full time child.

I've emailed ofsted to ask whether i would need to apply for a variation. In my case i hope they say i don't so that i could tell the mum now instead of having to wait until nearer the time and then potentially being let down.

I do think they'd need to put some limit on it though ie at the moment the max you'd get a variation for would be 4 under 5 - surely that needs to stay in place! No one would be able to manage 6 EYFS kids without help surely!!!!!

[Mouse]

This is interesting as I'm just thinking about whether to apply for a variation for a child whom i currently have to cover before and after playgroup hours so that i could take on another full time child.

I've emailed ofsted to ask whether i would need to apply for a variation. In my case i hope they say i don't so that i could tell the mum now instead of having to wait until nearer the time and then potentially being let down.

I do think they'd need to put some limit on it though ie at the moment the max you'd get a variation for would be 4 under 5 - surely that needs to stay in place! No one would be able to manage 6 EYFS kids without help surely!!!!!

In your situation though you'd be having a variation for new business, which they don't allow anyway and which wouldn't be allowed under the new EYFS rules.
And there isn't actually anything that says the maximum number of EYFS children is 4. I have had a very brief variation for 5 EY children, as have others. There's nothing to say you couldn't have 6 :eek:

[AliceK]

This is interesting as I'm just thinking about whether to apply for a variation for a child whom i currently have to cover before and after playgroup hours so that i could take on another full time child.

I've emailed ofsted to ask whether i would need to apply for a variation. In my case i hope they say i don't so that i could tell the mum now instead of having to wait until nearer the time and then potentially being let down.

I do think they'd need to put some limit on it though ie at the moment the max you'd get a variation for would be 4 under 5 - surely that needs to stay in place! No one would be able to manage 6 EYFS kids without help surely!!!!!

It depends on their age though. If they were 3 and 4yr olds it really isn't that much of a problem to have 3, 4 or even 5 at that age it's not like you need them in a pushchair or anything like that.
xxx

[butterfly]

It depends on their age though. If they were 3 and 4yr olds it really isn't that much of a problem to have 3, 4 or even 5 at that age it's not like you need them in a pushchair or anything like that.
xxx

Very true. It will be interesting to see what Ofsted do. If they allow everyone to make their own decisions with no real 'rules' they'll have to pick up the pieces every time it goes 'wrong'! In some respects I think it would be a good thing however (if it was regulated better) as it would allow you to accept a child for an extra day as a one off!

[miffy]

I don't think anyone knows the answers yet.

We'll still have to stick within the framework rules, so no more than 6 under 8 etc, but no one seems to know if we will still have to apply to Ofsted to increase the EY numbers, or if we can do it ourselves as long as we feel we satisfy the conditions (continuity of care or siblings).

Nowhere does it give the impression that we can just take on as many children as we like. It is quite clear what the rules are and that we have to stick to them. Just how we go about it is still shrouded in mystery!

Continuity of care is not mentioned in the revised EYFS and it's unclear yet whether that is due to an error or if it is a new rule.

Miffy xx