NCMA as helpful as a chocolate teapot

[Tatjana]

I got a call from the council this morning to tell me my hygiene inspection was due, again, it's booked for thursday. I then checked to see if it was the same person as last time, it was.....this was the man who told me I had to wear an apron and hairnet, had to probe all the meat and record the findings, had to attend a food hygiene course plus much much more. According to him they are legal requirements. He even stated "I can take this place apart if I want".:eek:

I called the ncma to ask for their advic eas I didn't feel I was being treated correctly, after all I'm a childcare setting not a restaurant catering for the general public. Well all they had to say was it's upto each individual council to decide what they expect and I need to adhere to thier requirements. :angry: I spoke to another person as couldn't believe what I was hearing to be told the exact same thing.

I just want to be a childminder not run my kitchen as if it were a restaurant. I'm so upset, annoyed and angry.:(

[loocyloo]

poor you.

do you have a DO or someone who could help you? do you know any other local minders who have had a visit? have they been told the same thing? could someone be with you when they visit?

thinking of you

x

[The Juggler]

that inspector is totally out of order. Hon, call your local early years team for advice - they will be the people who co-ordinate with the food hygiene people if they are both workign for the LA.

Can't believe the NCMA. So they didn't even offer to ring your council to get to the bottom of it - so how is that supporting you as a member :panic:

Ring your local early years team tomorrow hon, don't be put off until you speak with someone.

[sarah707]

The booklet Safer Food better business for childminders has the requirements in it.

Make sure you can state them to the guy and ask him where he's getting his information from.

If you get anything from him in writing I will happily support you with a complaint - otherwise just ignore him.

Hugs xx

[Tatjana]

that inspector is totally out of order. Hon, call your local early years team for advice - they will be the people who co-ordinate with the food hygiene people if they are both workign for the LA.

Can't believe the NCMA. So they didn't even offer to ring your council to get to the bottom of it - so how is that supporting you as a member :panic:

Ring your local early years team tomorrow hon, don't be put off until you speak with someone.

Thank you for this advice, it hadn't occurred to me to ring them. I will ring tomorrow morning.

[The Juggler]

coming back to you hon, with another thought. If he is such a jobsworth and is threatening before he's arrived, he is GOING to see something he doesn't like. I would demand that a local authority DO be there to support you or have another childminder as a witness.

DO NOT be bullied by him. Or ring his boss and tell him what this man said to you before he comes and tell him you demand a different inspector. This man is a bully and is never going to be impartial :panic:

[Tatjana]

The booklet Safer Food better business for childminders has the requirements in it.

Make sure you can state them to the guy and ask him where he's getting his information from.

If you get anything from him in writing I will happily support you with a complaint - otherwise just ignore him.

Hugs xx

Sarah, I told the ncma about this and how it doesn't match what the council man was saying, they said that was just the basics and it's upto the council to decide what they expect of us.:rolleyes:

I have ignored him since the last inspection. However the thought of seeing him in my home again makes me feel very uncomfortable, I've phoned the council to ask for a different person....still waiting for them to get back to me.

[Tatjana]

coming back to you hon, with another thought. If he is such a jobsworth and is threatening before he's arrived, he is GOING to see something he doesn't like. I would demand that a local authority DO be there to support you or have another childminder as a witness.

DO NOT be bullied by him. Or ring his boss and tell him what this man said to you before he comes and tell him you demand a different inspector. This man is a bully and is never going to be impartial :panic:

That was the threat he made to me when he was here at the last inspection, I should have complained about it then but with pregnancy and other things on my mind I let it go.

Thanks again to you all for your advice.

[The Juggler]

That was the threat he made to me when he was here at the last inspection, I should have complained about it then but with pregnancy and other things on my mind I let it go.

Thanks again to you all for your advice.

let us know how you get on :)

[Tatjana]

I just phoned Ofsted to be told the exact same thing, have to abide by what the council says. :angry:

So basically, I need to spend more time in the kitchen fixing my hairnets, aprons, probing food, taking fridge temps and recording it all instead of caring for children. So say i'm :censored: off would be an understatement.

It's things like this that make me want to give up minding.

[rickysmiths]

Do you have a copy of this folder? If not phone them and get a copy it's free. It was written for childminders by the Food Agency and NCMA and is the guidelines for our Food Hygiene.

Do you not know any other local cms who have had inspections and what their experiences were, what were they told to do? If you don't know anyone I would be tempted to look at your local FIS and ring a few, introduce yourself and explain your dilemma and see what they say?


I think if you have a real concern the only thing you can do is phone and speak to the chief inspector and ask.

At the end of the day all the advise you have had has been right even if its not what you want to hear. All areas do something different and you have to abide by the local rules.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Sorry to be the negative side but what do you expect NCMA to do? They have no power at local level as far as I can tell.

I am not sure which area you are in but if you go back to NCMA and ask for an NPF for your area and ring them they can bring it up on your behalf at the next meeting and then NCMA will take action countrywide.

[Tatjana]

Sorry to be the negative side but what do you expect NCMA to do? They have no power at local level as far as I can tell.

I am not sure which area you are in but if you go back to NCMA and ask for an NPF for your area and ring them they can bring it up on your behalf at the next meeting and then NCMA will take action countrywide.

I would expect them to give me this sort of information. Thank you.

[nikki thomson]

I just phoned Ofsted to be told the exact same thing, have to abide by what the council says. :angry:

So basically, I need to spend more time in the kitchen fixing my hairnets, aprons, probing food, taking fridge temps and recording it all instead of caring for children. So say i'm :censored: off would be an understatement.

It's things like this that make me want to give up minding.

How bizzare, here in Wiltshire your not even inspected, they just send you a questionnaire to fill in, that's it. Sounds like a right jobsworth. X

[The Juggler]

Sorry to be the negative side but what do you expect NCMA to do? They have no power at local level as far as I can tell.

I am not sure which area you are in but if you go back to NCMA and ask for an NPF for your area and ring them they can bring it up on your behalf at the next meeting and then NCMA will take action countrywide.

Debbie I agree that they have no power over what the LA decides but they are supposed to offer support. This kind of threatening behaviour from a food hygiene inspector is appalling. They should at least have offered some constructive advice to OP to call her early years team for some advice and support not jsut say 'its nothing to do with us' :panic:

[rickysmiths]

Debbie I agree that they have no power over what the LA decides but they are supposed to offer support. This kind of threatening behaviour from a food hygiene inspector is appalling. They should at least have offered some constructive advice to OP to call her early years team for some advice and support not jsut say 'its nothing to do with us' :panic:

Trouble is though that so many of us don't have that kind of support from anyone any more. All our NCMA staff went a year ago and the Early Years staff are next to useless, I rang one of them over a month ago to arrange some local training and she hasn't even had the manners to return the call. They would be even worse about this kind of advise.

NCMA cannot help on an individual basis because they have no control over any of our Local Authorities.

It does seem that this guy is going a bit over the top so the OP needs to steel herself to make a call or pay lip service and get through the inspection. Or speak to some local minders to see what their inspectors have been and maybe get some names to add weight to her complaint.

We can all help with advise on her but unfortunately we can't be in the kitchen when she is inspected.She needs to make that call.

[Penny1959]

If your early years team can't support you - as RS says many areas do not even have an early years team and those that do are stretched to the limit.


NCMA are wrong - it is not up to each area - although some are a law un to themselves.

Sarah is correct the 'rules' are in the safer food better business pack - this is produced by the Food Standards Agency - they make the rules not the local EH department.

Sarah has already offered her support - and I will to.

Penny :)

[christine e]

Penny it is up to each individual council how they inspect - as we all know it varies from a phone call to an in depth inspection - very unfair! How many childmdinders responded to the recent survey on how the inspections ought to be carried out in future?

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=93749&highlight=consultation

[JCrakers]

Poor you. I really would refuse to have him in my house..I wont be intimidated in my own home :angry:

I had a nice man round for my inspection who had a quick look round and told me to minitor the fridge temp everyday and record it so every morning when i write the register i just add the temp in.

If I had to kit up in an apron and hair net I just wouldnt do it...honestly
If it meant me not offering food to the chilren then so be it...but I hate being dictated to...lol

Ive always been my own boss..cant you tell :rolleyes: I wouldnt last 2 mins in an office, I cant stand being told what to do :D

[Penny1959]

Penny it is up to each individual council how they inspect - as we all know it varies from a phone call to an in depth inspection - very unfair! How many childmdinders responded to the recent survey on how the inspections ought to be carried out in future?

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=93749&highlight=consultation

Of course you are right Christine each LA decides on if to do anything, make a call or do an inspection - and they have the right to do an inspection if they want to.

What is not right though is own interputation of the 'rules' that are applied in a domestic setting -- it say very clearly on all guidance that consideration should be given to the fact that a domestic setting. It also says very clearly that following the safer food better business pack will cover the requirements of Food safety and health requirements.

I think it is a bit like Ofsted inspectors - some EH inspectors have their own agenda - but just like with ofsted inspections - it does not make it right - and where EH inspectors are insisting on things that are not a requirement in a domestic setting as defined in the safer food better business pack - then it should be challenged.

If people don't complain / challenge then other childminders will continue to have condititions imposed on them that are not fair or apply across the board.

If for example wearing a hairnet is required then we should all be told the same - if we are not it is then we might think it is a local requirement - and even it is it should be made clear in their documentation and applied across all childminders in their area - and I bet it is not because it will usually be proved to be individual criteria - not local or national.

The SFBB was produced with input from LA's - they should be applying it - and from the EH inspectors I know this is what they are told - IF they are told anything - because sometimes they are just sent to inspect without any specific information and so apply the 'rules' from non domestic settings.

As I say no different from Ofsted inspections - especially those who have no experience of doing childminder inspections.

I agree with you about the consultation - how many did take part? The opportunity was provided to comment - I did - I hope many others did too.

We need to stop these inconsistencies and personal criteria / judgements - so we should complain when we need to and respond to consultations when given the opportunity.

This forum is a good place for advice and support - but posting on here will not get things changed.

Penny :)

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I would expect them to give me this sort of information. Thank you.

I would like to take this issue up with NCMA - of course they could direct you.

Would you have any objection if I sent them your original thread and then my answer and your response? Which council inspects you as they will want to know that I am sure?

[Tatjana]

I would like to take this issue up with NCMA - of course they could direct you.

Would you have any objection if I sent them your original thread and then my answer and your response? Which council inspects you as they will want to know that I am sure?

I don't mind at all, it's Enfield council. I spoke to 2 people at the ncma and neither of them gave me any support or advice. Thanks again.

[Tatjana]

Well I spoke to the boss of this inspector and he told me that he should be allowing discretion for a home setting and not insisting I wear hairnets and aprons and maybe only occassionally record cooked food temps.

He said they would still send him, which I said I was unhappy with as I had requested an alternative inspector, he told me to ring him if I have any issues with him tomorrow....I told him I would ask him to leave my home if he was going to have the same appalling attitude as before.

I'm also considering stopping cooking for mindees and just offer cold foods, or the parents can supply if they wish as I'm tired of all this.

[rickysmiths]

Well I spoke to the boss of this inspector and he told me that he should be allowing discretion for a home setting and not insisting I wear hairnets and aprons and maybe only occassionally record cooked food temps.

He said they would still send him, which I said I was unhappy with as I had requested an alternative inspector, he told me to ring him if I have any issues with him tomorrow....I told him I would ask him to leave my home if he was going to have the same appalling attitude as before.

I'm also considering stopping cooking for mindees and just offer cold foods, or the parents can supply if they wish as I'm tired of all this.

The only way in my LA for a cm not to be registered as a food business is that they only offer water and the child brings a fully enclosed lunch box so nothing can be contaminated in the fridge. Anything more and I'm afraid you may still have to be registered and it does vary from LA to LA even though it should not.

[Tatjana]

[/COLOR]

The only way in my LA for a cm not to be registered as a food business is that they only offer water and the child brings a fully enclosed lunch box so nothing can be contaminated in the fridge. Anything more and I'm afraid you may still have to be registered and it does vary from LA to LA even though it should not.

Yes, I realise I still need to be registered, but I wouldn't have to adhere to the probing food for temps, keeping records of it or answer any related questions at food hygiene inspections etc.